Red Sox Ink Arroyo to 3 year 12 millon dollar deal

[MANNYHOF24]

Saw this on boston.com, this means that Clement is gone in a deal for a CF, which i think is good in my opinion

new rotation

Schill

Beckett

Wake

Arroyo

Paps

I also think Wells will still be dealt

 

 

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/

[riverside sluggers]

I have much more respect for Arroyo now. Like Wakefield, he has become captivated and with the Organization, the city of Boston and most importantly us fans. How rare is it this day and age to have players who yearn to stay with the same team for just about their whole careers?

[Redguitar985]

That's a weaker rotation though without Clement.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

That's a weaker rotation though without Clement.

 

I disagree. It was this time last season we all thought Arroyo was going to be an outstanding pitcher and none of us really wanted to see him go. He is still cheap from a starting pitchers perspective and the guy has done well in his first two years starting. I still think Matt Clement is a head case and his career shows that.

 

I like Arroyo's versatility and he is a fairly consistant pitcher. Even when he gets roughed up the guy still battles and certainly has shown he can pitch in the playoffs. Its also nice to have a guy here that really wants to be here. 12+ wins is not out of the question for Bronson this coming season.

[User Name]

Maybe we can deal Clement for Griffey. Not the best option, but good if he doesn't (haha. yeah right) get injured. Also been some talk of that.

[yeszir]

Maybe we can deal Clement for Griffey. Not the best option, but good if he doesn't (haha. yeah right) get injured. Also been some talk of that.

But we have a gigantic wall in left field. Griffey has bad luck with walls.

[User Name]

True, my friend.

 

Even with the prospect of getting Girffey, I still would like Reed. However, I'd like to invent a time machine, so we can get Griffey, send him back about 5 years, and then have that Griffey return.

[castigs850]

i think this is exactly what most fans needed to see. after damon left us for the yankees and manny and wells asking for trades im sure im not the only one that was afraid what kind of message that was sending to other players throughout the league its good to know that some players are still very exited to play for the bosox and will even take a lower salary to stay

[riverside sluggers]

Expect to see Ortiz's extension sometime from now to when spring training starts. WEEI reported it will be 3-5 years

 

Tito is also expected to get an extension, since 06 is his contract season

[ORS]

I'm ambivalent about this one. Bronson's a decent (meaning league average) pitcher, and 200+ innings of that at the back end of the rotation aren't a bad thing. Locking him up at what is probably below market value is good, and it increases his trade value. However, Bronson's comments in the article make it seem like he was given assurances that no such trade would happen in the immediate future, which pretty much means they can't trade him because if they do they'll look like double-crossing jackasses. I hope that he can start locating his FB a little better so that he can take advantage of his good off-speed stuff, because if he doesn't, it will be a long 3 years at $4M per.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I'm ambivalent about this one. Bronson's a decent (meaning league average) pitcher, and 200+ innings of that at the back end of the rotation aren't a bad thing. Locking him up at what is probably below market value is good, and it increases his trade value. However, Bronson's comments in the article make it seem like he was given assurances that no such trade would happen in the immediate future, which pretty much means they can't trade him because if they do they'll look like double-crossing jackasses. I hope that he can start locating his FB a little better so that he can take advantage of his good off-speed stuff, because if he doesn't, it will be a long 3 years at $4M per.

 

I couldn't agree more. We do need to consider Arroyo has only pitched two seasons with us and will probably continue to get better. His breaking stuff is fantastic and you are right...when his fastball is locating well then he has a good game. If he can do that more often we could look at a season around a 4.00 ERA. Again not bad for a back end rotation and long reliever.

[elsrbueno]

I honestly think we've seen the best of Bronson Arroyo. He's a back end of the rotation guy but for what he brings to the table $4 million per isn't that bad. He's proven himself in the AL East and like others have said he's a battler. He's obviously not as talented as a guy like Clement, but honestly, who'd you rather have out there in a must win game, Clement or Arroyo? I'd take Bronson hands down. He just seems to have a better mentality for succeeding in a place like Boston.

 

The Red Sox would definately look very very bad trading Arroyo now that he's come out and said he signed a long-term deal because he loved Boston, and honestly the last thing the Red Sox need right now is a PR hit.

 

If I'm the Red Sox, I do my best to turn Wells and Clement into a centerfielder (and maybe a shortstop). If Wells can go to Arizona for a couple youngters who then can be packaged with Clement to Seattle for Reed or to Cleveland for Crisp, that would work.

 

A rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Arroyo, Papelbon is still pretty solid, and the bullpen is very deep. If the Sox have more takers for Mota than they do for Clement, I say keep Clement as the #5 and put Papelbon in the bullpen. With Schilling and Beckett questionable because of injury, having Papelbon as the #6 man certainly has merits.

[ORS]

I honestly think we've seen the best of Bronson Arroyo. He's a back end of the rotation guy but for what he brings to the table $4 million per isn't that bad. He's proven himself in the AL East and like others have said he's a battler. He's obviously not as talented as a guy like Clement, but honestly, who'd you rather have out there in a must win game, Clement or Arroyo? I'd take Bronson hands down. He just seems to have a better mentality for succeeding in a place like Boston.

 

The Red Sox would definately look very very bad trading Arroyo now that he's come out and said he signed a long-term deal because he loved Boston, and honestly the last thing the Red Sox need right now is a PR hit.

 

If I'm the Red Sox, I do my best to turn Wells and Clement into a centerfielder (and maybe a shortstop). If Wells can go to Arizona for a couple youngters who then can be packaged with Clement to Seattle for Reed or to Cleveland for Crisp, that would work.

 

A rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Arroyo, Papelbon is still pretty solid, and the bullpen is very deep. If the Sox have more takers for Mota than they do for Clement, I say keep Clement as the #5 and put Papelbon in the bullpen. With Schilling and Beckett questionable because of injury, having Papelbon as the #6 man certainly has merits.

I think Arroyo has room for improvement, but it is all dependent on control. A lot of finesse pitchers start to develop control in their late-20's/early-30's, so it's not a stretch to think he could do it too. With good control, I think Bronson would be very similar to a Mike Mussina. Both have a just over 90 FB and very good offspeed stuff; they even pitch the same way by trying to paint with the FB to set up the junk. The difference right now is that Mussina can hit his spots, and Bronson can't.

 

I do think one of Wells/Clement gets dealt before ST, but not both. This is due to the question marks about Papelbon as a starter. I love JP's heater, but he needs something else to be given a shot as a starter. I think the FO knows this and will wait until they see what he has in ST before giving him a rotation spot. If he's got a very good second pitch, then whoever of Wells/Clement is still around can be moved.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I think Arroyo has room for improvement, but it is all dependent on control. A lot of finesse pitchers start to develop control in their late-20's/early-30's, so it's not a stretch to think he could do it too. With good control, I think Bronson would be very similar to a Mike Mussina. Both have a just over 90 FB and very good offspeed stuff; they even pitch the same way by trying to paint with the FB to set up the junk. The difference right now is that Mussina can hit his spots, and Bronson can't.

 

I do think one of Wells/Clement gets dealt before ST, but not both. This is due to the question marks about Papelbon as a starter. I love JP's heater, but he needs something else to be given a shot as a starter. I think the FO knows this and will wait until they see what he has in ST before giving him a rotation spot. If he's got a very good second pitch, then whoever of Wells/Clement is still around can be moved.

 

Papelbon does have that splitter he used effectively last season but also has a slider and CAN mix in a changeup (although I didn't see it much last year). I think the guy has plenty of other pitches but what we saw from him was the fastball since he was coming out of the bullpen most of last year.

 

What we really need to see out of Papelbon is how he handles hitters the second and third time around. Last year in the games he started...you saw him getting hit more in the 5th-6th casue players figured him out. He just needs to use his stuff better and know how to set up batters. More work with Varitek and I think we would see the results soon.

[ORS]

Papelbon does have that splitter he used effectively last season but also has a slider and CAN mix in a changeup (although I didn't see it much last year). I think the guy has plenty of other pitches but what we saw from him was the fastball since he was coming out of the bullpen most of last year.

 

What we really need to see out of Papelbon is how he handles hitters the second and third time around. Last year in the games he started...you saw him getting hit more in the 5th-6th casue players figured him out. He just needs to use his stuff better and know how to set up batters. More work with Varitek and I think we would see the results soon.

He struggled the 2nd time through because he was throwing about 90% fastballs. His secondary pitches, while occassionally very good, weren't consistent enough. If he has just one more out pitch, he can start, but based on what I saw last year, he's not ready yet. He has had all offseason to work on this issue, so it could be that he's ready now. We'll see which is the case when pitchers and catchers report.

[ksushi]

He threw a lot of fastballs on instruction from the sox. They were capping his innings because they were afraid to overwork him, and he was only allowed to throw his dirty slurve sparingly for fear it would put too much strain on his elbow. He basically was fastball split when he was up, but he actually has 5 pitches 3 of which are plus one average and a pretty unrefined change up. I don't know where the myth came from that he only throws a fastball, the one place that comes to mind for you to verify is that Analysts top 75. They talked about his pitches and actually claimed he had 5 good ones. I'm not sure about that, his change is pretty rough, but the slurve-curve is very nice and the split is developing nicely. Has a pretty good slider.

[MANNYHOF24]

I honestly think we've seen the best of Bronson Arroyo. He's a back end of the rotation guy but for what he brings to the table $4 million per isn't that bad. He's proven himself in the AL East and like others have said he's a battler. He's obviously not as talented as a guy like Clement, but honestly, who'd you rather have out there in a must win game, Clement or Arroyo? I'd take Bronson hands down. He just seems to have a better mentality for succeeding in a place like Boston.

 

The Red Sox would definately look very very bad trading Arroyo now that he's come out and said he signed a long-term deal because he loved Boston, and honestly the last thing the Red Sox need right now is a PR hit.

 

If I'm the Red Sox, I do my best to turn Wells and Clement into a centerfielder (and maybe a shortstop). If Wells can go to Arizona for a couple youngters who then can be packaged with Clement to Seattle for Reed or to Cleveland for Crisp, that would work.

 

A rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Arroyo, Papelbon is still pretty solid, and the bullpen is very deep. If the Sox have more takers for Mota than they do for Clement, I say keep Clement as the #5 and put Papelbon in the bullpen. With Schilling and Beckett questionable because of injury, having Papelbon as the #6 man certainly has merits.

 

 

Why put Papelbon in the bullpen, the guy is 25 and needs to start now. He is a starter not a reliver. This could could get 200 inngs and K 200 guys, Clement will give you a 4.50 Era with 150 BB's and pitches at an agonizingly slow pace, let the Papelbon Era begin

[Cityofchampions33]

Hey Damon, this is what they call loyalty

[ORS]

He threw a lot of fastballs on instruction from the sox. They were capping his innings because they were afraid to overwork him, and he was only allowed to throw his dirty slurve sparingly for fear it would put too much strain on his elbow. He basically was fastball split when he was up, but he actually has 5 pitches 3 of which are plus one average and a pretty unrefined change up. I don't know where the myth came from that he only throws a fastball, the one place that comes to mind for you to verify is that Analysts top 75. They talked about his pitches and actually claimed he had 5 good ones. I'm not sure about that, his change is pretty rough, but the slurve-curve is very nice and the split is developing nicely. Has a pretty good slider.

I missed the report about directives from the FO limiting his pitch type. That does make sense if they were worried about his inning total for the year (hence the pretty strict 100 pitch count too). I've read the scouting reports, but last year my eyes told me his slider/slurve needs work. Perhaps he didn't throw it as well because he didn't throw it as often? The splitty looked nice at times. If he can get consistent with it, he'll be really tough on lefties.

[gosox613]

Oh man i love this; i love arroyo out there; his breaking ball is so sick. He definetly needs to work on his other stuff or this deal may not be worth it. Hes also not totally inconsistent like Clement who just jumped off a cliff after the all star break: arroyo last year was 7-5 before the all star break and 7-5 after it. And i totally agree with his love for the fans and the community: he came to my school to do an acoustic performance/Q and A/signing :thumbsup: ...but it was $45...:thumbdown .

[guapo34]

Hey Damon, this is what they call loyalty

 

 

This isn't a fair comparison at all. Arroyo wasn't eligible for free agency and won't be for another 3 years. This deal doesn't change that at all. Hes going to make more this year than he would've in arbitration. He may make less in the third year of the deal, but a million in 2006 is more valuable than to get it in 2008.

[Redguitar985]

I disagree. It was this time last season we all thought Arroyo was going to be an outstanding pitcher and none of us really wanted to see him go. He is still cheap from a starting pitchers perspective and the guy has done well in his first two years starting. I still think Matt Clement is a head case and his career shows that.

 

I like Arroyo's versatility and he is a fairly consistant pitcher. Even when he gets roughed up the guy still battles and certainly has shown he can pitch in the playoffs. Its also nice to have a guy here that really wants to be here. 12+ wins is not out of the question for Bronson this coming season.

 

This is true, but Arroyo has never proven he could become an ace. I think the best he'll ever be is a number 4 or 5 starter. Clement was the ace of the staff for a major part of 2005 while Schilling and Wells were injured. I think the only reason things went downhill at the end was because the Tampa Bay game when he got beaned. If the team gives him another year or two to prove he really is a good pitcher, I take him over Arroyo. I like Arroyo, and I'm glad we resigned him, but the rotation would be stronger with Clement. Arroyo should be a spot starter.

[guapo34]

This is true, but Arroyo has never proven he could become an ace. I think the best he'll ever be is a number 4 or 5 starter. Clement was the ace of the staff for a major part of 2005 while Schilling and Wells were injured. I think the only reason things went downhill at the end was because the Tampa Bay game when he got beaned. If the team gives him another year or two to prove he really is a good pitcher, I take him over Arroyo. I like Arroyo, and I'm glad we resigned him, but the rotation would be stronger with Clement. Arroyo should be a spot starter.

 

Clement was horrible for a number of starts before being hit in the head. When he came back he actually put together a string of 3 or 4 good starts, then proceeded to suck again. Getting hit with the comebacker had nothing to do with his poor performance.

[riverside sluggers]

This is true, but Arroyo has never proven he could become an ace. I think the best he'll ever be is a number 4 or 5 starter. Clement was the ace of the staff for a major part of 2005 while Schilling and Wells were injured. I think the only reason things went downhill at the end was because the Tampa Bay game when he got beaned. If the team gives him another year or two to prove he really is a good pitcher, I take him over Arroyo. I like Arroyo, and I'm glad we resigned him, but the rotation would be stronger with Clement. Arroyo should be a spot starter.

 

Actually Clement's 2nd half tumble started with his first 2 games back from the All Star Break against the Yankees & White Sox.

 

8.2 innings, 11 hits, 10 ER, 4 HRs, 7 Walks, 9 Ks

[a700hitter]

True, my friend.

 

Even with the prospect of getting Girffey, I still would like Reed. However, I'd like to invent a time machine, so we can get Griffey, send him back about 5 years, and then have that Griffey return.

I'd rather have an old Griffey for 2 years than Reed for 4 years. Griffey is an all-time great, with more talent in his old body than Reed would have if he could clone himself.

[jsinger121]

Griffey does not have the range to play center anymore while reed can cover alot of ground. the red sox already have a shaky defensive outfield with manny and trot having hardly any range. they don't need to add an often injured player who does not have the range he once had.

[MANNYHOF24]

Yeah, you could see it coming with Clement, his Era was on the rise every month, it just happens with him. Look at his career in the second half, its not a fluke we do not want Matt Clement on the hill this year. I would take a start from Papelbon everyday of the week after watching the 2nd half of last year. I mean the Sox gave him every chance to make his mark and he didnt get it done. The game agianst Toronto towards the end of the year, and of course the horendous Game 1 performance agianst the White Sox, i done with this guy, let him go back to the NL have his 10-12 record with his 4.00 Era

[Cityofchampions33]

This isn't a fair comparison at all. Arroyo wasn't eligible for free agency and won't be for another 3 years. This deal doesn't change that at all. Hes going to make more this year than he would've in arbitration. He may make less in the third year of the deal, but a million in 2006 is more valuable than to get it in 2008.

 

Well, not in the situation case but he does stick to his word and also is giving us a hometown discount. btw, how much would he have made in arbitration?

[yeszir]

I see Arroyo as kind of a younger John Burkett when he was with the Red Sox. Pardon me if this is dumb, but its been a long week and I'm frazzled. Anyhoo, we paid Burkett 5.5 mil/year for 2002 and 2003.

 

His stats over that period were:

2002 37 BOS AL  13   8  29  29   1   1   0  0  173.0  199   93   87  25   50  124   8   2   760   5   1  4.53  4.42   98 1.439
2003 38 BOS AL  12   9  32  30   1   0   1  0  181.7  202  108  104  20   47  107   9   3   785   1   0  5.15  4.71   91 1.371

and he pitched 5th in the rotation I believe. Decent production out of the #5 guy, and we were paying him 1.5 more than Arroyo, who has promise to be much better for us.

 

Alright I have no idea where this is going. Arroyo and Burkett are (were) both decent pitchers with good (if not great) stuff for a #5 guy and not too expensive.

[CrespoBlows]

Hey Damon, this is what they call loyalty

 

Why are you so bitter toward Johnny Damon? He's done nothing wrong. He got a better deal to play for the Yankees. I mean c'mon, if you were Johnny Damon you'd do the same thing.