Clemens to the Red Sox? (go out the right way)

[Bostons_Finest]

Clemens can't re-sign with the National League champions before May 1 It also makes the seven-time Cy Young Award winner available to the other 29 teams, including the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox, two of his former clubs. id do everything in my power to convince the Rocket to retire as a sox.

[ahhchon]

Clemens can't re-sign with the National League champions before May 1 It also makes the seven-time Cy Young Award winner available to the other 29 teams, including the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox, two of his former clubs. id do everything in my power to convince the Rocket to retire as a sox.

 

we have a better chance at winning the world series 3 years in a row..

 

john

[Soxfan1]

Agreed. He is going to retire. HOF here he comes.

[RedRuffing15]

the early '90s weren't my studying era, but, heres what I believe.

 

Clemens hates the Sox, since the time he left them, he never liked them, he will most defiantly go into the Hall as a Sox, but not happily, he wanted to go in as a Yankee when he "retired", and it was expected that Geroge Steinbrenner was going to try and get him to(I'm not sure if that is, but thats what I remember), then, Roger came back to the MLB, and played for the Astros, last year, when a trade was in the talks, he said the only team, other than the Astros, he'd play for is the Yankees. I wouldn't mind having him on the Yankees due to his history, but I wouldn't get hyped up on him coming back to the Sox, in his own decision.

[ahhchon]

not to mention there is a huge risk signing clemens, yeah he's a horse/machine/beast but how long can he keep this up? at the pricetag of 17+ million he's not worth it.

 

john

[Sizzlin22]

He's not going to come to the Sox, but that doesn't mean he "hates them and has always hated them" he just had beef with the frontoffice, I don't think if it were offered he would immediatly dismiss it.

[yeszir]

Why does everyone want this sack of s*** back on our team? I don't get it.

[MC Hammer]

the early '90s weren't my studying era, but, heres what I believe.

 

Clemens hates the Sox, since the time he left them, he never liked them, he will most defiantly go into the Hall as a Sox, but not happily, he wanted to go in as a Yankee when he "retired", and it was expected that Geroge Steinbrenner was going to try and get him to(I'm not sure if that is, but thats what I remember), then, Roger came back to the MLB, and played for the Astros, last year, when a trade was in the talks, he said the only team, other than the Astros, he'd play for is the Yankees. I wouldn't mind having him on the Yankees due to his history, but I wouldn't get hyped up on him coming back to the Sox, in his own decision.

 

I think he's going into the HOF as a Yankee as he won his championships there.

[greenwell39]

Why does everyone want this sack of s*** back on our team? I don't get it.

 

Finally another Red Sox fan who doesn't put Clemens on a pedestal! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one!

[ksushi]

I like Clemens, great pitcher, but his sox days are behind him. He'll play for the US in the WBC and call it a career.

[Commander Shears]

Just what we need. A self-absorbed excuse-making drama queen. Only this one chokes in EVERY big game of his career. Winning a playoff game for the Yanks when you're up 3 games hardly outweighs getting blown out vs. Pedro, outduelled by a more-injured Smoltz, and losing to Dave Stewart about twelve times a year.

 

Most overrated pitcher in history.

[ahhchon]

i'm not a huge clemens fans either but to call him the most overrated pitcher in history is ABSURD.

 

john

[User Name]

Why does everyone want this sack of s*** back on our team? I don't get it.

 

 

I concur.

[Commander Shears]

i'm not a huge clemens fans either but to call him the most overrated pitcher in history is ABSURD.

 

john

 

 

I didn't say worst, I said most overrated. He's considered by many to be the best of all time, yet he quits in the playoffs and wets himself when he faces Dave Stewart. With that ratio of rating to reality, who could possibly be more overrated?

[26 to 6]

I didn't say worst, I said most overrated. He's considered by many to be the best of all time, yet he quits in the playoffs and wets himself when he faces Dave Stewart. With that ratio of rating to reality, who could possibly be more overrated?

Pedro wets himself when he faces Enrique Wilson. C'mon now!!

 

To say Roger is overrated is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this site.

 

A self-absorbed excuse-making drama queen.

Call him a drama queen then step into the box against him. I bet ypu get knocked on ur ass so quick.

[Varitek33]

I very much doubt Clemens will want to go back to the Red Sox.

[Commander Shears]

Pedro wets himself when he faces Enrique Wilson. C'mon now!!

 

To say Roger is overrated is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this site.

 

Call him a drama queen then step into the box against him. I bet ypu get knocked on ur ass so quick.

 

I would advise you to stay away from much baseball coverage and analysis then, as I'm hardly the first person to express this opinion.

 

For those of us who are counting, this is the fourth team he's quit on when he wasn't showered enough praise. His last four years with Boston, he was clearly out of shape and underperforming. He then gets motivated, kicks ass for a crap team about which he cares not a bit, so he leaves. He rides the Yankees' coattails to a Series, again has his performance slide with each year on the team, and leaves when they don't treat him like an ace. Houston bends over backwards for him, shells out enormous cash, but he doesn't feel loved enough so he goes on sabbatical. He wants to be begged, missed, coddled and various other forms of ass-kissing, and you're saying he isn't a drama queen?

 

He only cares about one guy, and it's been readily apparent every time he's joined/deserted a team. To me, this past season was his absolute ideal. He put up crazy stats (other than wins and in particular, playoff wins), while everybody played the violin for him and his lack of run-support.

 

How does the best pitcher of all time take himself out of playoff games? (Or get himself thrown out, for that matter) He reminds me of Terry Glenn in a way. I always felt that Terry would rather get open and have the pass be overthrown, then have to go fight for the ball. Rocket would rather lose 2-1 and have everyone talk about how it wasn't his fault. He gets praise and pity, what a two-fer.

 

In every sport, in order to be considered the best, you should have to perform well in the clutch / under pressure. (To be fair, some are excused due to lack of opportunity.) To me, he is on the wrong end of that spectrum, no matter how talented he is. In every conceivable way, he's the anti-Derek Jeter.

 

Oh, and Enrique owned Pedro. That's undeniable, but it's also an entirely different phenomenon. Heck Trot Nixon owns Clemens, what does that prove?

[ahhchon]

Pedro wets himself when he faces Enrique Wilson. C'mon now!!

 

To say Roger is overrated is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this site.

 

 

Call him a drama queen then step into the box against him. I bet ypu get knocked on ur ass so quick.

 

when someone says something stupid try proving them wrong by saying something smart. snooping down to their level and saying something stupid makes you look like a bitch.

 

pedro martinez does NOT wet himself when he faces enrique wilson. the guy is garbage, http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5932/career . to say that is silly. pedro mostly faced wilson in his prime. he was not scared of anyone, don't you remember the 99 all star game? or were you too still bottle feeding?

 

john

[26 to 6]

when someone says something stupid try proving them wrong by saying something smart. snooping down to their level and saying something stupid makes you look like a bitch.

 

pedro martinez does NOT wet himself when he faces enrique wilson. the guy is garbage, http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5932/career . to say that is silly. pedro mostly faced wilson in his prime. he was not scared of anyone, don't you remember the 99 all star game? or were you too still bottle feeding?

 

john

Not once did I say Martinez was a bad pitcher, which is what you are making it seem like I said by referring to the All Star Game and whatnot. All I said was that Pedro was owned by Enrique. Go look at Enrique Wilson's stats against Pedro, come back, and appologize.

[ahhchon]

i looked at the stats before i even began my reply to your comment, i rarely EVER comment without something to back up what i say.

 

25 at bats is hardly a good sample size to say that enrique wilson owns pedro. there are so many other variables involved.

 

like:

 

how many runners were there on base

how many runners on scoring position

who was on base, where was he on base, does he have speed or not, can he round 1st to 3rd on a single?

who was up next

who was up after the next batter

 

with a sample size of (if i recall correctly, 25) there are WAY too many variables to possibly say that enrique wilson owns pedro.

 

many will say that mueller "owns" mo, i don't feel that way. a .400 average against a pitcher might be good, in baseball terms, but you need to remember (lets just pretend we're only looking at average) that the other .600 is owned by the pitcher....

 

john

[26 to 6]

Oh, and Enrique owned Pedro. That's undeniable, but it's also an entirely different phenomenon. Heck Trot Nixon owns Clemens, what does that prove?

The purpose of my statement wasnt to say that Pedro is a bad pitcer because he gets beat up by Enrique.

 

Honestly, the Enrique/Pedro thing was irrelevent, my post was made without thinking.

-----------------------------------------

I dont think Clemens quits on teams persay. All of your points are VERY good ones, but Clemens is a competitor. I think it is unfair to say that he would rather lose 2-1 so that it is not his fault and he gets praise as well as pity. Im sure opposed to losing 8-2 that is true, but opposed to winning 8-7 that is false. Im sure he would much rather get a win while not pitching so hot rather then get a loss pitching great.

 

Not good in the clutch? While no doubt he has had some bad playoff/postseason games, he has also had some very good ones. Game 6, 1986, Game 1, 2000 vs Seattle, Game 6, 2005 vs Atlanta in relief. Those are just off the top of my head.

 

And Clemens didnt leave the Yankees because he felt as though they werent treating him right, it was because he wanted to RETIRE. But he was swayed out of retirement by Pettitte and the Astros, and nobody could blame him with the arrangement he had. And you cant say that he wanted begging, pleading, etc from Houston. I think it is perfectly understandable for him to have to think about it for some time. It is a major deciscion, its not like deciding whether he should wear a jacket or a sweatshirt. This was Houstons deciscion because THEY were being drama-queens and couldnt wait for the man to make a huge personal/family deciscion.

 

I understand all of everyone's points. but if you ask me, if you have the opprotunity to get Roger Clemens you do it.

[26 to 6]

25 at bats is hardly a good sample size to say that enrique wilson owns pedro. there are so many other variables involved.

All I know is that if you put Enrique in the box against Pedro, there is a good chance he knocks a double.

[ahhchon]

All I know is that if you put Enrique in the box against Pedro, there is a good chance he knocks a double.

 

and you are basing that on what? a sample size of 25?

 

like i have stated about very clearly, there are many many variables as to why a s***** baseball player like enrique wilson (below are career numbers) can do well against the most dominant pitcher of our generation. to honestly believe that enrique wilson will "most likely" bang a double against pedro in his prime is just silly. you'de lose everything (twice!) in vegas if you bet like that.

 

9 Seasons 555 1406 155 343 73 5 22 141 14 19 89 169 .244 .288 .350 492 (i deleted the last 5 stats because 99% of the members on this board has no idea what they are)

 

saying that enrique wilson owns pedro is like, well it's so silly i can't really come up with an analogy for it. but seriously, we shouldn't be debating this, you know exactly what i'm saying and the only reason we are debating this is because of the yankee redsox issue.

 

john

[guapo34]

All I know is that if you put Enrique in the box against Pedro, there is a good chance he knocks a double.

 

 

4 doubles, 7 singles, 2 rbi and a walk in 25 ABs. Good numbers, but it seemed like when Torre batted him leadoff against pedro a couple games Pedro concentrated more and got him out. . I can't really back that up with anything though.

[SuperManny]

alright back on track though - saying clemens is the most overrated player in baseball is ridiculous. Hes one of the top 5 pitchers of all time and arguably the best. Does that make him a good guy? not at all and from what ive seen hes a jerk but games arent won by being nice. Hes a great pitcher and its amazing what hes done at this age. I would take Clemens back in a second because hes a great player - same reason I would take Nomar back. That said I doubt either Nomar or Clemens would come back to Boston anyways.

[schillingouttheks]

He's not a jerk. We have family friends who are really close with the Clemens' family and I've talked to him before. He's not an ass like he's made out to be, he's actually very considerate and puts others before him.

 

Not to mention he's one kickass pitcher, arguably the best in history...

[SuperManny]

He's not a jerk. We have family friends who are really close with the Clemens' family and I've talked to him before. He's not an ass like he's made out to be, he's actually very considerate and puts others before him.

 

Not to mention he's one kickass pitcher, arguably the best in history...

 

Im sure hes a great guy in person - I meant more as the whole - I want to be closer to my family which is why Im signing with Toronto. Then demanding a trade 2 years later to the Yankees. Then retiring from the Yankees - tkaing the Hummer from the Yanks as a retirement gift and signing with the Stros. Hes a $$ man and theres nothing wrong with that but he comes off as kind of a jerk by screwing his old teams. So lets see:

 

Boston - wants to be closer to family so goes to Toronto

Toronto - forces trade to NY

NY - retires with Hummer to sign with Houston

Houston - refuses to negotiate before arb date so Stros have to let him go because they cant risk paying him 25 mill next year- he could have easily agreed to not accept arb to keep negotiations going

[Commander Shears]

And Clemens didnt leave the Yankees because he felt as though they werent treating him right, it was because he wanted to RETIRE. But he was swayed out of retirement by Pettitte and the Astros, and nobody could blame him with the arrangement he had. And you cant say that he wanted begging, pleading, etc from Houston. I think it is perfectly understandable for him to have to think about it for some time. It is a major deciscion, its not like deciding whether he should wear a jacket or a sweatshirt. This was Houstons deciscion because THEY were being drama-queens and couldnt wait for the man to make a huge personal/family deciscion.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. He says he wants to retire, but if someone begs him, he'll come back. Everybody has known that kind of person who says he doesn't want to go to the party, just so everyone else will tell him that he has to go, that it won't be the same without him, yada yada. Then, lo and behold, you convinced him. It's dramatic, manipulative, passive aggressive, whatever you want.

 

If he wanted to retire, he would have retired. He wanted to play, as long as he was treated a certain way.

[Sizzlin22]

Call him a drama queen then step into the box against him. I bet ypu get knocked on ur ass so quick.

That's a dumb statement and completely irrelavent. Clemens is a drama queen, but he's also one of the best pitchers of all time, and he probably won't sign with any team outside of Texas.

[JimBrown32]

That's a dumb statement and completely irrelavent. Clemens is a drama queen, but he's also one of the best pitchers of all time, and he probably won't sign with any team outside of Texas.

 

YOU are a drama queen, please. I can tell you about 10 of the top 10 most queer posts I've ever seen have come from you. You don't want me to name them, trust me.