The Tito Thread

[mosox]

After Wednesday night's game it seems like a good time to start a thread on the moves of Francona down the stretch.

Tito obviously seems determined to sink with Millar, and his use of the bullpen this week needs to be questioned. Timlin has let 18 of 32 inherited runners score this year, so bringing him in the 8th seems to make no sense. Papelbon has been groomed to be the set-up guy, and the obvious first choice to come out of the pen to get one out. Hansen was also available. Why call up the kids if he doesn't want to use them?

[Cityofchampions33]

I said it yesterday, and I'll say it again, this guy is nothing special, all he does is what he's suppose to do. Though you can't really blame him here, I wouldn't rush hansen inot a big situation already. Maybe give him a few mop up appearences first. I might have brought in Papy though, he's more of a SO pitcher than Timlin, and if his splitters good he mighta gotten out. This bullpen is the only thing that's bringing us down. There was a stat about how the Yankees would be 5 up if the Devil Rays didn't win so much against em, well we'd probably be even if we had our 2004 pen.

[sarasoxfan]

good points. Tito is among the lowest paid managers in baseball for a reason, and certainly the shine on wnnning a championship isnt enough to carry any manager for too long. Luckily for most fans in terms of the future this management wants to win and will make changes in the off season if we dont get our s*** together soon. Unlike the delusional fans that post here most of us realize that this team has significant flaws and problems. Our bullpen is a patch work mess.Timlin has been overused and thats obvious to every one except francona. His attraction to millar is the most perplexing thing I have ever seen, when it is so f***ing obvious that the guy is usuelss and a laibiklity on the field and at the plate. with his whopping 1 home run for the entire seaosn on the road. Come on. The allusion of this team is that the offense is so good it can carry us...clearly that is not the case so we'll see, but whyen forced to manage around problems franconca has proved ptiiful. pressing the same buttons time after time with disasterous results is getting old if you ask me.

[jebargit]

There is an old saying: insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. Manny Ramirez not running out grounders, Terry Francona's inability to be creative at this point in the season with his league-leading worst bullpen...

 

We should not be surprised.

[riverside sluggers]

from foxsports, talking about how Lou Piniella is leaving the D-Rays and what teams will need a manager come spring training 2006. guess what team they mention also? Might Tito be in same boat that Torre is in? but still > i wouldnt ever want Piniella as the manager of the Sox

 

Red Sox: Manager Terry Francona is signed through 2006, but he could become a scapegoat if the Sox fail to make the postseason and management wants to keep Piniella away from the Yankees. Then again, the Sox might be more inclined to hire a manager who would implement the front office's statistically-oriented philosophies. Piniella does not fit that profile.

[jebargit]

from foxsports, talking about how Lou Piniella is leaving the D-Rays and what teams will need a manager come spring training 2006. guess what team they mention also? Might Tito be in same boat that Torre is in? but still > i wouldnt ever want Piniella as the manager of the Sox

Unfortunately, I think Tito will be back next year, regardless of what happens. However, it would be really a breath of fresh air if Francona just started using the best players at a given situation and not be beholden to his rigidity.

 

One can only dream, right?

[sarasoxfan]

you shudder at lou pinella..

I think he would be great, and I dont think francona could wear lou's jock strap.

 

Plus, tito's name should not be allowed to be mentioned in the same sentance...As torre's.

[riverside sluggers]

i post what i want, tito is in the same boat as torre if his job is on the line if sox dont make the playoffs

[sarasoxfan]

who is questioning whether you can or cant post anything??

 

all I am saying is the lou pinella is an infinitely better manager than francona, so is torre, la russa, gullien....Francona is beyond a players manager..and as a result is weak and ineffective, he has no say in motivating these guys..the question now that things are tough and with the season on the line

can they motivate themselves.

That ridiculous thing with the rookies dressing up in drag (sounds like a prank from the ********** millar)...do you think any good manager would let his team do s*** like that in a pennant race.

I guarantee you there were some pretty serious hangovers in Tampa..who pitched that first night ..wells...who hit into two double plays that first night..millar...you think they had hangovers??

think about it.

[riverside sluggers]

as indicated on nesn, speculations are abound that wells has been pitching on a bad knee, he might need a cortizone shot

[ksushi]

i dont blame francona for staying away from papelbon, i actually would like to see him get shut down. In his last two appearences his fastball has been 91-93 and hes over the innings that they wanted him to pitch for the whole season already. I wouldn't go to him again this season even if he is better then timlin. I think hansen would have been ok, i think that harville would have been alright too, but i dont think you can risk putting timlin in with runners on, cause then he lets one score and he falls apart and loses his confidence on the hill. Its just not a good idea. I do think that lou pinella is a great manager, and terry francona is very middle of the road. I Would rather have pinella, you'd be crazy not to. Francona can not handle a pitching staff and i dont think he is the right guy to be running a team that hes going to be going through a youth movement the next few years because he doesnt trust the "kids" as he calls them. I definetly hope he is gone next year because i dont want to see papelbon sitting, or youkilis sitting, or hansen either. I want to see those guys thrown into the mix, i want to see delcarmen log a lot of innings next season, i want to see lenny dinardo get a chance, I hope lester can come up and be great. I dont see francona letting any of that happen. Hes not a players manager, hes a veterans manager, and thats not the kind of guy you want at the helm if you going to have a lot of "kids" coming up from the farm system

[riverside sluggers]

David Wells, as expected, received a cortisone injection in his ailing right knee Tuesday night. The lefthander is expected to make his scheduled start Sunday at Baltimore.

 

not a hangover as Boston Globe has just reported this

[riverside sluggers]

Note: you do know Piniella has a tendency to leave his starters and bullpen pithcers in for too long, dont you???

[sarasoxfan]

I still say the team (millar) has a tendenency to do what they want and francona is powerless to lead or motivate in any way. as far as wells goes, you cant have a bad knee and a hangover at the same time? Maybe they should have done this assinine rookie thing at some point other than --now!

Did you know the devil rays suck and he has said numerous times that he leaves guys in too long becasue he has no one to go too.

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

I have a funny feeling that Macha's gonna be the manager in "2006" ...

[riverside sluggers]

now see Macha he's a manager Id like having, he was the manager for the Paw Sox when Trot played there

[RedSoxRooter]

Ken Macha and Tito are virtually the same person. How is this any different?

 

The thing with Francona that I like is that there is a legit reason for everything he does. And he explains the why's and why-not's after each game. I think he's done an excellent job this year considering the zillion injuries the team has had to deal with.

[riverside sluggers]

everyone except Tito knows that this season you dont put Timlin on with inherited runners even with 2 outs, thats a no brainer

[MANNYHOF24]

I really dont think tito is that bad, if he had brought Paps or Hansen in and the same thing happened, then everyone would be saying fire Tito becuase he didnt put in Timlin, and a runner at 1st with 2 outs is different from say 2nd and 3rd with no outs... i was actually confident that Timlin was going to get the job done, i was wrong of course but i might have made the same move

[Cityofchampions33]

I'd much rather have Macha over Tito. It's amazing what macha's done with the A's REBUILDING, hes taken this team of rookies and no-names into playoff contention, I would LOVE to see what he could do with the Sox, he has basically turned Huston Street into the MLB's next promising closer and has total confidence in all his players, plus, i'm sure he wouldn't have loyalty issues as Tito seems to have (cough) Millar (cough).

[schillingouttheks]

I'd much rather have Macha over Tito. It's amazing what macha's done with the A's REBUILDING, hes taken this team of rookies and no-names into playoff contention, I would LOVE to see what he could do with the Sox, he has basically turned Huston Street into the MLB's next promising closer and has total confidence in all his players, plus, i'm sure he wouldn't have loyalty issues as Tito seems to have (cough) Millar (cough).

Agreed, it took him awhile to realize the problem Bellhorn was as well. Hmmm...

 

Macha is unbelievable, but could it be said that Macha is working with Billy Beane's selection? I mean, Billy Beane has been known for drafting good pitchers, of course Macha deserves credit for all he's accomplished, but IYO, who and why does a better job?

[riverside sluggers]

I really dont think tito is that bad, if he had brought Paps or Hansen in and the same thing happened, then everyone would be saying fire Tito becuase he didnt put in Timlin, and a runner at 1st with 2 outs is different from say 2nd and 3rd with no outs... i was actually confident that Timlin was going to get the job done, i was wrong of course but i might have made the same move

 

say that again, Timlin last week against Toronto came in to close out the inning with 2 outs and first pitch he served up was a 3 run homerun to vernon wells, who like the d-rays hitters havent had success against him

[Cityofchampions33]

schillinggouthecks if u mean between Macha and Beane Id have to go w/ Beane, the guy is just amazing with how he analyzes players and he basically invented the Moneyball approach, which proved even when ur re-building u can win.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

schillinggouthecks if u mean between Macha and Beane Id have to go w/ Beane, the guy is just amazing with how he analyzes players and he basically invented the Moneyball approach, which proved even when ur re-building u can win.

Cityofchampions33, one question how many WS's has he won ?

[RedSoxRooter]

Screw WS wins. How many playoff series?

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Screw WS wins. How many playoff series?

Same answer 0.

[Cityofchampions33]

This is all with low budget players and a terrible offense, Tito has won one only because of our talent. Hell, I'd bet macha would win 2 with us if he started out w/ pedro and Schill

[Sox Fan on Cape]

This is all with low budget players and a terrible offense, Tito has won one only because of our talent. Hell, I'd bet macha would win 2 with us if he started out w/ pedro and Schill

Are you serious ? Are you trying to say Macha has had no quality players ? Does the big three come to mind, Foulke, Giambi, Tejhada, on and on. Please.

[jimmycarter05]

you shudder at lou pinella..

I think he would be great, and I dont think francona could wear lou's jock strap.

 

Plus, tito's name should not be allowed to be mentioned in the same sentance...As torre's.

 

i agree, sweet lou has to be one of the best mangers of all time...he's the kind of manger that lets the team know that its HIS team and no one else...plus he won 70 games with a 30 million dollar payroll...thats good managing...truthfully i don't want tito to go, but he's my second choice as the boston manger...i mean look at the team he's leaving behind in tampa bay: Carl Crawford, Julio Lugo, Jorge Cantu, Scott Kazimar, Johnny Gomes, Tobby Hall...those are some pretty good young hitters...oh yeah, he also won 116 games in 1 season

[26 to 6]

Are you serious ? Are you trying to say Macha has had no quality players ? Does the big three come to mind, Foulke, Giambi, Tejhada, on and on. Please.

those were all Howe players, werent they?