Giambi's Mysterious Power Surge

[26 to 6]

what you guys forget is that he didnt just make a jump from horrible to great. I dont have the numbers in front of me, but he started to turn it up in June. He started to get clutch hits (the one that is fresh in my mind is the walkoff homer against Pittsburgh), started to hit more homers, and then gradually he became what he is now. Not through steroids, but through hard work.

[MC Hammer]

Dude the media and the fans ignoring steroid use the first time was what let it spread around the league. Now, we're not going to be fooled again. I really could careless if this topic is giving you a headache or not, because this "headache" won you the ALCS, and countless other games that you did not deserve to win. Along with all the help Shitfield gave you. So if you want to drop it, then feel free and stop posting in this thread. But as far as me turning my head once again ... it's not going to happen.

[26 to 6]

Dude the media and the fans ignoring steroid use the first time was what let it spread around the league. Now, we're not going to be fooled again. I really could careless if this topic is giving you a headache or not, because this "headache" won you the ALCS, and countless other games that you did not deserve to win. Along with all the help Shitfield gave you. So if you want to drop it, then feel free and stop posting in this thread. But as far as me turning my head once again ... it's not going to happen.

are you still on that? Thats a page back.

BTW, im not the only person who has gotten irritated with this thread, but just because im irritated with something doesnt mean im going to cut it off.

 

And are you still on that Sheffield stuff? At least with your Giambi accusations he actually admitted to using them on a regular basis. Sheffield however did not. There is no proof Sheffield EVER did steroids except for the one time during the offseason he rubbed cream on his knee. Leave Sheff alone.

[ARod2212]

No... that's saying we should turn a blind eye because we can't prove anything anyway -- if we're not supposed to ignore these facts, and how what he's done is awfully suspicious, what else is their to do but suggest that someone may be using them, especially when one's season has gone the way of Jason Giambi's? You don't go from possible Triple A player to MVP form in the matter of months let alone to do it in the span of one month as he did.

Why can't a player improve? Is there no precedent of a player turning his year around by getting more work in, or figuring out a mechanical flaw. Conspiracy theories are fun to throw around, but when you start believing in them you look stupid.

 

My point is this, it is going to get tiring and pointless to keep accusing players who are hot/cold for a span of a season. Unless they increase testing the accusations are going to lead us nowhere.

 

 

 

 

Until you can actually prove something, accusations fall on deaf ears (as well they should).

[See Red]

I've never said a player can't improve -- it's how rapid of an improvement he made that's the problem. When, in the history of sports, has somebody improved this much of this short of a period time. It's going from being lucky to still be in the league to playing like an MVP -- it doesn't happen overnight. In fact, it's unprecendented.

[MC Hammer]

And are you still on that Sheffield stuff? At least with your Giambi accusations he actually admitted to using them on a regular basis. Sheffield however did not. There is no proof Sheffield EVER did steroids except for the one time during the offseason he rubbed cream on his knee. Leave Sheff alone.

No Sitfield didn't just "rub a cream on his knee" he used steroids. I'm tired of people trying to just brush off what Bonds and Sitfield were doing as just rubbing on cream, because like I said before it was proven to be a steroid, which is why the Balco trial started. If it was just a cream then there would have never been a Balco trial. So please stop trying to just pass it off as rubbing on a cream because that makes me more irrate than antyhing else.

[riverside sluggers]

Leave Sheff alone.

 

Yeaa, leave Sheff alone, you mean person you, haha MCHammer you should know better than that

[ARod2212]

I've never said a player can't improve -- it's how rapid of an improvement he made that's the problem. When, in the history of sports, has somebody improved this much of this short of a period time. It's going from being lucky to still be in the league to playing like an MVP -- it doesn't happen overnight. In fact, it's unprecendented.

And it didn't happen over night.

[ARod2212]

No Sitfield didn't just "rub a cream on his knee" he used steroids. I'm tired of people trying to just brush off what Bonds and Sitfield were doing as just rubbing on cream, because like I said before it was proven to be a steroid, which is why the Balco trial started. If it was just a cream then there would have never been a Balco trial. So please stop trying to just pass it off as rubbing on a cream because that makes me more irrate than antyhing else.

He didn't do it with the Yankees, and it was unintentional. In fact if you read Sports Illustrated, that is the reason Sheffield despises Barry Bonds, for tricking him into using steroids.

 

Sheff called for tougher testing, something I have yet to hear from Barry Bonds or the other steroid people.

[See Red]

And it didn't happen over night.

 

He tripled his season long HR total in the span of a month. That's a pretty rapid, and unprecedented, improvement.

[See Red]

He didn't do it with the Yankees, and it was unintentional. In fact if you read Sports Illustrated, that is the reason Sheffield despises Barry Bonds, for tricking him into using steroids.

 

Sheff called for tougher testing, something I have yet to hear from Barry Bonds or the other steroid people.

 

Sammy Sosa said to test him right in the lockerroom.

 

Of course Sheff calls for tougher testing -- wouldn't you if it'd help your lie? Especially with the protective blanket that is the players union -- he probably did it because he knows it won't happen.

 

As for it being unintentional and Sheff blaming Bonds -- he's a professional f***ing athlete, and one in very good shape -- generally, they make sure they know what the f*** they put in or on their body. Christ.

[26 to 6]

I've never said a player can't improve -- it's how rapid of an improvement he made that's the problem. When, in the history of sports, has somebody improved this much of this short of a period time. It's going from being lucky to still be in the league to playing like an MVP -- it doesn't happen overnight. In fact, it's unprecendented.

how do you know its so impossible to happen as quickly as it did. Are you in a position to say that it is impossible to defy the odds? I think not.

[26 to 6]

Sammy Sosa said to test him right in the lockerroom.

 

Of course Sheff calls for tougher testing -- wouldn't you if it'd help your lie? Especially with the protective blanket that is the players union -- he probably did it because he knows it won't happen.

 

As for it being unintentional and Sheff blaming Bonds -- he's a professional f***ing athlete, and one in very good shape -- generally, they make sure they know what the f*** they put in or on their body. Christ.

Sosa did say to test him in the locker room, and as far as I know he never took that test, nor has he tested positive for anything. Thats not to say that Sosa hasnt ever used because many people think he has (including me).

 

How the f*** do you know what questions were asked when Sheffield took the cream. The conversation could have went like this:

 

BB: Hey Sheff, take this, it worked wonders for my knee.

GS: iight thank Bar'.

*Sheffield rubs it on his knee*

 

or it could have gone like this:

 

BB: Yo Sheff take this, it worked wonders for my knees.

GS: iight man, good lookin' out.

GS: By the way, whats in this

 

 

and then Barry could have went and lied to him or something. Sheff did say thaqt Barry kind of tricked him into using it.

The point is that you werent there, you dont know the circumstances, and you dont know what you're talking about. Its easy to speculate, but if you dont know then its not valid. Just like I can speculate about Ortiz, but until he tests positive or it comes out that he uses/has used steroids then its not valid and not worth debating.

 

In fact if you read Sports Illustrated, that is the reason Sheffield despises Barry Bonds, for tricking him into using steroids.

thats a good point i completely forgot about that.

[ORS]

He didn't do it with the Yankees, and it was unintentional.

If you believe the "once and unintentional" story, then I've got some real estate here for you in Florida.

 

In fact if you read Sports Illustrated, that is the reason Sheffield despises Barry Bonds, for tricking him into using steroids.

Sheff has shown very little loyalty to anyone other than himself at every stop in his career. Why would you expect Barry to get any different treatment? Barry is a bigger name and part of the Balco thing, in other words, the ideal scapegoat for Sheff.

[example1]

Sosa did say to test him in the locker room, and as far as I know he never took that test, nor has he tested positive for anything. Thats not to say that Sosa hasnt ever used because many people think he has (including me).

 

How the f*** do you know what questions were asked when Sheffield took the cream. The conversation could have went like this:

 

BB: Hey Sheff, take this, it worked wonders for my knee.

GS: iight thank Bar'.

*Sheffield rubs it on his knee*

 

or it could have gone like this:

 

BB: Yo Sheff take this, it worked wonders for my knees.

GS: iight man, good lookin' out.

GS: By the way, whats in this

 

 

and then Barry could have went and lied to him or something. Sheff did say thaqt Barry kind of tricked him into using it.

The point is that you werent there, you dont know the circumstances, and you dont know what you're talking about. Its easy to speculate, but if you dont know then its not valid. Just like I can speculate about Ortiz, but until he tests positive or it comes out that he uses/has used steroids then its not valid and not worth debating.

 

 

thats a good point i completely forgot about that.

 

 

So its okay to believe that Sosa used steroids but those who believe that Sheffield used them should leave Sheff alone? Why should we think that Sheffield DID NOT use steroids? He said he used them... so.... hmmm.

[CrespoBlows]

what you guys forget is that he didnt just make a jump from horrible to great. I dont have the numbers in front of me, but he started to turn it up in June. He started to get clutch hits (the one that is fresh in my mind is the walkoff homer against Pittsburgh), started to hit more homers, and then gradually he became what he is now. Not through steroids, but through hard work.

 

Actually he did. You just contridicted your whole arguement. You lose.

[bobby jr]

Because every time Giambi hits a homerun, people want to bring up steroid talk. And he's been hitting lots of homeruns.

 

He was on steroids before and hit a lot of HR's. When he got off steroids, he was terrible. Now he is hitting HR's like every night, and seems to have regained the weight and strength he had when he was on steroids.

 

Do you actually believe that the steroids did him no good in 2003? If they did him no good, then that would explain why he could be hitting like this without steroids. But if the steroids indeed did make him a great hitter, then the inevitable conclusion is that he is back on the juice.

 

I read an article recently that a certain substance was prohibited in cycling in 1999, but there was no way of detecting it from urine samples at that time. However now six years later the old uring samples were examined, as the technology now exists to determine if the banned substance is in the urine.

 

And the findings are that a large percentage of those 1999 urine samples did indeed have the banned substance in them. The cyclists knew it could not be detected so they took the drugs, even knowing they were banned.

 

So I believe it is with MLB. Human Growth Hormone cannot be detected at this time through urine samples, only with blood samples, which are not being taken in MLB.

 

I believe it is quite possible that GIambi and certain other players are on HGH. If blood testing is initiated next year I anticipate a big drop in Giambi's stats.

[26 to 6]

So its okay to believe that Sosa used steroids but those who believe that Sheffield used them should leave Sheff alone? Why should we think that Sheffield DID NOT use steroids? He said he used them... so.... hmmm.

but im not out here accusing Sosa, just my personal feeling is that Sosa used. But I have never posted a post except for the one that you quoted in which i accused sosa of using steroids (and i didnt even accuse him in that post, i just shared my personal feeling)

[26 to 6]

Actually he did. You just contridicted your whole arguement. You lose.

what are you talking about. I said he gradually improved and that he DIDNT do it over night

 

You lose

[MC Hammer]

On Mike and Mike in the Morning, on ESPN radio, this morning Mike and Mike were discussing the same thing we are. They both agreed that Giambi was convicted for using steroids in the court of public opinion this year. They also both agreed that they see the old crazed look in Giambi's eye, and mentioned that his habit of profusely sweating had returned. Neither took a side really, but the fact that it's being discussed again is fine by me.

 

See Yankee fans. We're not the only ones talking about it.

[bobby jr]

I just hope and pray that if Giambi is back on steroids or HGH, that he does not help the Yankees into the World Series like he did two years ago while he was on the juice. The Red Sox deserved to be in that Series take away those two game seven HR's by Giambi in the ALCS and they would have been.

 

And I hope that MLB somehow has strict testing which includes blood tests by next year, so what has happened with Giambi this year can never, ever happen again.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

what are you talking about. I said he gradually improved and that he DIDNT do it over night

 

You lose

 

This is just a little off subject but I had to ask a Yankee fan. Why do the Yankees have so many curtain calls? Aren't those moments for heroics on the baseball field? I have to watch the games and can't believe what you people cheer for. Everyone wants to talk about Jason Giambi and how he has dealt with so much this year....

 

In the beginning of the season the Yankee fans got all over Boomer when he entered the game and all he did was help win a few World Series for the Yankees. Then you cheer for Jason Giambi as he goes up for his first at bat. Now it seems like every time he hits a HR Yankee stadium is yelling for a curtain call. Doesn't appear to me he has had a tough time?? right?? So who is really losing...Yankees...they look more rediculous everytime they cheer for a curtain call for a moment that is not close to being worthy of one. As far as these threads go....any argument you have in favor of Jason Giambi....

 

You lose

[ORS]

what are you talking about. I said he gradually improved and that he DIDNT do it over night

 

You lose

Just because your opinion is that the improvement was gradual doesn't make it so. Unfortunately, I think this will be hard concept for you to understand, as you are very unreceptive to contrary points of view.

 

The phrase, "I'm taking my ball and going home", was a big part of your childhood wasn't it?

[26 to 6]

I just hope and pray that if Giambi is back on steroids or HGH, that he does not help the Yankees into the World Series like he did two years ago while he was on the juice. The Red Sox deserved to be in that Series take away those two game seven HR's by Giambi in the ALCS and they would have been.

 

And I hope that MLB somehow has strict testing which includes blood tests by next year, so what has happened with Giambi this year can never, ever happen again.

Bobby are you an O's fan or a Sox fan? Its crazy how much you defend your division rival.

 

And we dont know for sure if anything has happened with Giambi,

[26 to 6]

This is just a little off subject but I had to ask a Yankee fan. Why do the Yankees have so many curtain calls? Aren't those moments for heroics on the baseball field? I have to watch the games and can't believe what you people cheer for. Everyone wants to talk about Jason Giambi and how he has dealt with so much this year....

 

In the beginning of the season the Yankee fans got all over Boomer when he entered the game and all he did was help win a few World Series for the Yankees. Then you cheer for Jason Giambi as he goes up for his first at bat. Now it seems like every time he hits a HR Yankee stadium is yelling for a curtain call. Doesn't appear to me he has had a tough time?? right?? So who is really losing...Yankees...they look more rediculous everytime they cheer for a curtain call for a moment that is not close to being worthy of one. As far as these threads go....any argument you have in favor of Jason Giambi....

 

You lose

I admit that curtain calls are a little excessive. The reason there are so many curtain calls is because when a player does something good to help us win we need to let them know that we are behind them and support them to the fullest.

 

Why do I lose? Because you say so?

[26 to 6]

Just because your opinion is that the improvement was gradual doesn't make it so. Unfortunately, I think this will be hard concept for you to understand, as you are very unreceptive to contrary points of view.

 

The phrase, "I'm taking my ball and going home", was a big part of your childhood wasn't it?

read the post that I quoted . In fact ill post it for you.

 

Actually he did. You just contridicted your whole arguement. You lose.

Now because his opinion was that happened overnight doesnt make it so. And he basically came out and said that I contradicted my arguement (which I didnt) and "you lose", which led to my response in the post you quoted. how about before you make posts like the above you read back a bit. And besides, that post had nothing to do with you.

 

And was you're little piece at the bottom supposed to hurt me? I think you're taking this a little too far by attempting to get personal. I have been pretty good about not disrespecting you guys. I expect the same in return.

[ORS]

read the post that I quoted . In fact ill post it for you.

 

 

Now because his opinion was that happened overnight doesnt make it so. And he basically came out and said that I contradicted my arguement (which I didnt) and "you lose", which led to my response in the post you quoted. how about before you make posts like the above you read back a bit. And besides, that post had nothing to do with you.

 

And was you're little piece at the bottom supposed to hurt me? I think you're taking this a little too far by attempting to get personal. I have been pretty good about not disrespecting you guys. I expect the same in return.

You are disrespectful in a very passive aggressive way. You expect people to take your opinion as some sort of cold, hard, indisputable fact, while trying to pawn it off as unbiased. You insult people's intelligence when you do that.

 

If it is your opinion, then state it as such. And as far as the "unbiased" thing goes, you might as well quit including the "according to my unbiased..." tag on your posts, because that dog just won't f***ing hunt here.

[26 to 6]

You are disrespectful in a very passive aggressive way. You expect people to take your opinion as some sort of cold, hard, indisputable fact, while trying to pawn it off as unbiased. You insult people's intelligence when you do that.

 

If it is your opinion, then state it as such. And as far as the "unbiased" thing goes, you might as well quit including the "according to my unbiased..." tag on your posts, because that dog just won't f***ing hunt here.

ya know what, if you werent a former Marine and I didnt have the respect that I do for servicemen (that I got from my uncle, who is a Nam vet) then I would be pretty much lashing out. But instead im going to try to compose myself. FYI Every post that I tagged as unbiased is just that. (for example this one, which you happened to agree with http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4322&page=12&pp=15 ) You think that if I say something from an unbiased standpoint that it has to be pro-Red Sox. You're the biased one here. And in no way am I trying to be disrespectful, and if you consider defending my opinion as disrespectful you're just as guilty.

[MC Hammer]

I'd just like to find out what 26-6 was saying about Giambi in the first 2 months of this season. I seriously doubt you were this behind the guy. I seriously doubt you would have defended him no matter what the subject, but now he's hitting HRs and doing good and the fairweather Yankee fans have jumped right back on his bandwagon. So lame.

 

Fairweather Fans

EXAMPLE: Jason Giambi is publicly outted as a steroid user. He sucks ... he gets boo'd ... not for using steroids ... for sucking. Shitfield publicly outs himself as a steroid user. He produces ... you cheer. Jason Giambi returns to his old form ... you cheer ... it's clear that he's back on steroids and/or HGH ... but you turn a blind eye becasue, hey he's helping the club now.

[ORS]

I don't consider opinions, nor the defense of them, disrespectful. It is the act of attempting to pass your opinion off as more than an opinion.

 

Bias proved:

 

from the thread "2004 Minor League Organizational Rankings" in Minor League Prospects

 

thread link

 

Cano vs. Pedroia

Please, Cano is doing a great job in the Majors, lets let Pedoria play a ML game before we make him out to be Joe Morgan or Ryne Sandberg.

Edge: Yankees (for now)

 

Youk vs. Duncan

Shut Up, Duncan is going to be far better than Youk. Hes not a bad fielder, so whoever told you that is wrong, though he has struggled a little, hes a pretty good fielder. And he can hit, in the prime of his career he will hit way more than your projected 20 homers. if Youk was so good he'd be a fulltime player, not a roster replacement when someone gets hurt.

Edge: Yankees

 

Wang vs. Papelbon

Again, SHUT UP. Wang has been very successful this year and was our #3, and his ceiling isnt just a #4 or 5. Lets have your guy throw a game for Boston first before we say hes better than Wang.

Edge: Yankees

 

A person with an unbiased approach to this discussion would be consistant in choosing a prospect with big upside or a player with MLB experience. You do not do that. You defend Wang and Cano against the prospective talent of Papelbon and Pedroia by citing their current experience, then do a complete 180 degree turn and say Duncan is better than Youk because of his potential despite Youk's MLB experience. That is blatant hypocrisy. You took both sides of the same argument and used whichever one supported the Yankee player that was part of the discussion. I'd have to make something up to make it appear more biased.