who should go??

[riverside sluggers]

as the red sox near their halfway mark of the 2005 season, its becoming more evident there is a group of players not being able to cut it consistenly, and might be best to thank them for their work and send them on their way. whos more likely to go for the july tradeline? I think its embree, see his ERA now?? dont know how long you can keep him in the bullpen

[sarasoxfan]

mother foulken embree..!

[elsrbueno]

I voted Foulke, and here's why:

 

Am I the only crazy one in the world who thinks Theo Epstein should reckognize the market trends, and ship off Keith Foulke while he might be able to get some prospects for him?

 

I know I said this last year about some other guys, but that was a knee-jerk reaction. I've really thought this one out.

 

Everybody knows Keith Foulke isn't THIS bad. His playoff performance last season proves he's capable of dominating, especially in key situations. Judging by some comments made to the press by Foulke of late, he seems pretty fed up with the Boston fans and media, going so far as to say he expected to be traded a few weeks ago, and commenting last night on how the fans should "talk to management" if they don't want him to do the job. Now of course, he was probably talking out of frustration, but this could be the case where just getting the hell out of Boston and getting a new look (change of scenery) could straighten out Keith's problems.

 

The problem that's been widely chronicled this season is lack of sellers of veteran talent. I'm no business man, but it doesn't take a genius to understand supply vs demand and how that dictates price. There could be some GMs out there really looking to improve their bullpens, and with Danny Baez the best closer on the market, teams would take a long look at Keith Foulke, and I could see a few teams who would jump at him. Hell, if Chuck Lamar can convince the Mets to give up their top pitching prospect for Victor effing Zambrano, Theo Epstein can get some top-notch talent for Keith Foulke. If he's traded to a National League team, there's a pretty good chance that when he does straighten himself out, he won't be able to hurt us until the World Series-- and I'd take my chances on that one NOT coming back to burn us.

 

The Red Sox (thanks to Theo and company) have been working their collective asses off trying to rebuild a barren farm system. Trading Foulke now when he might be the best looking arm on the market could net the club some talent that can help down the road. I've sited the Mets' example, but look at some historical Red Sox trades. Remember Heathcliff Slocumb? His best contribution to the Red Sox was the talent the Red Sox got in return for him (A few prospects named Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe).

 

I'm not giving up on this year's team. The 2005 Red Sox are in first place, have an explosive offense, and when Schilling comes back should have enough pitching to get them into October, and they've accomplished all this without reliable innings from Keith Foulke-- who says they can't continue to win with him earning his millions in say, Shea Stadium?

 

Just a thought.

[RedSoxRooter]

Well, Foulke and Embree are the two biggest problems so far this year in relief. Most of the other problems with the bullpen will be ironed out once Arroyo (or Wake) goes down there.

 

Embree should be the easiest to replace since he's not a closer. We need a new lefty in the bullpen.

 

Foulke I'm worried about because, well, he looks like he's pitching hurt. If he is hurt, we need to get a healthy closer. If he's not, I say give him some more time. The Sox should know if he's hurting or not.

 

If he is healthy and continues to struggle, I'd try Mantei out as closer before dipping into the market. But if there's a Shoppach for Guardado deal in the works, they should do it anyway.

 

"Oy".. I can't believe I'm still so pissed about last night's game.

[gosox613]

yea i think that foulke has to go...difficult to disagree after last night, and thats not the only time hes blown it for us....plus we could get something decent if we were to trade foulke, and that is most likely not going to be the case with embree

[yeszir]

I'm not giving up on this year's team. The 2005 Red Sox are in first place, have an explosive offense, and when Schilling comes back should have enough pitching to get them into October, and they've accomplished all this without reliable innings from Keith Foulke-- who says they can't continue to win with him earning his millions in say, Shea Stadium?

 

Just a thought.

Interesting. You're proposing that we take the road less travelled by the sox in recent years, and trade a veteran for some prospects? Most people around here are thinking quite the opposite, that we should get rid of one of our 'spects in order to get some reliever, not the other way around.

 

It is true that we have been winning without Foulke pitching amazingly, but he has been pitching well on occasion, and he has helped more than he has hurt (probably). This has been said a million times, but we still dont have Schill, so when he comes back our starters may be able to pitch better on the average, which would either take pressure off of our bullpen or increase the need for a reliable closer so games we lead early on aren't blown at the end.

 

The last thing I want to see is a closer by commitee. We all know how those work out. If we were to trade Foulke, who would close for us? Timlin? Arroyo after Schill gets back? We'd need to make a trade for someone to shore up the bullpen afterwards most likely, so we'd end up getting rid of some top prospects anyway, right?

[riverside sluggers]

i dont think sox wouldnt get any offers from teams for embree, even if sox has offered money to them haha--if not a trade possibility, should just option him off of the team into free agency market

[YanksHater213]

I think if we dealt Shoppach for Guardado that we could possibly deal Foulke away for prospects so we would be able to still keep our farm system at the level it is while potentially solving a bad problem.

[CajunSox]

How much is Foulke's salary?

[elsrbueno]

Interesting. You're proposing that we take the road less travelled by the sox in recent years, and trade a veteran for some prospects? Most people around here are thinking quite the opposite, that we should get rid of one of our 'spects in order to get some reliever, not the other way around.

 

It is true that we have been winning without Foulke pitching amazingly, but he has been pitching well on occasion, and he has helped more than he has hurt (probably). This has been said a million times, but we still dont have Schill, so when he comes back our starters may be able to pitch better on the average, which would either take pressure off of our bullpen or increase the need for a reliable closer so games we lead early on aren't blown at the end.

 

The last thing I want to see is a closer by commitee. We all know how those work out. If we were to trade Foulke, who would close for us? Timlin? Arroyo after Schill gets back? We'd need to make a trade for someone to shore up the bullpen afterwards most likely, so we'd end up getting rid of some top prospects anyway, right?

 

That's exactly what I'm proposing. I'm suggesting that the Sox could very easily replace Foulke's contributions to the 2005 team (perhaps even from within, with Hansen or Papelbon), AND get some good talent for Foulke during a time when the price for a closer (in talent) could be at an all-time high. SOMEone's gotta bite and overpay for Keith's services.

 

I have no doubt that Mike Timlin could handle the closing duties. He's done it before, and he can do it again. Getting the ball to Mike Timlin could be a primary issue, but building a bullpen starts at the closer, and right now, ours is not someone you can afford to build around.

 

How can it hurt to put some feelers out there, see what the Mets might give up for a chance to upstage the Yankees? I'd be real careful dealing with John Schurholtz, because he always seems to come out on top of deals, but could you pry some of his prime-time young arms away?

[Sox fan in Tex]

Foulke made $3.5M last year, I have no clue what the amount he makes is this year. Anyone?

[RedSoxRooter]

I think he makes close to 6 million this year.

 

I just love how Red Sox and Yankee fans think that we can just "trade away" our players for good prospects because all the other teams would just love to get our underperforming old expensive guys.....

 

And even if we do trade them for prospects somehow, again, who will fill that players spot on the mlb roster???? Embree serves a purpose even if he gets killed. At the very least he's a warm arm in the pen. You'll see that today when he's the first one in out of the bullpen because of last night.

 

(perhaps even from within, with Hansen or Papelbon)

Do you really want an unproven rookie to be your closer in the playoffs? Calvin Shiraldi anyone?

[riverside sluggers]

sorry dude but i cringe once i hear embree is warming up, a relief pitcher to have an ERA of over 8 halfway thru the season, is just all and all bad

[elsrbueno]

I think he makes close to 6 million this year.

 

I just love how Red Sox and Yankee fans think that we can just "trade away" our players for good prospects because all the other teams would just love to get our underperforming old expensive guys.....

 

And even if we do trade them for prospects somehow, again, who will fill that players spot on the mlb roster???? Embree serves a purpose even if he gets killed. At the very least he's a warm arm in the pen. You'll see that today when he's the first one in out of the bullpen because of last night.

 

Do you really want an unproven rookie to be your closer in the playoffs? Calvin Shiraldi anyone?

 

I understand what you're saying, but does anyone have a whole lot of confidence in Embree or Foulke in Boston right now? I know I don't. We may or may not be able to find someone to take on these guys, but why not give it a shot? That's all I'm saying. I DID preface it by saying it was a crazy idea, didn't I?

 

Plus, didn't I say Mike Timlin would be the closer? He's hardly unproven.

[Soxfan1]

I said foulke. Ship him away till this turns into another BK kim situation.

[Sizzlin22]

Ok as bad as Embree has been Vazquez is clearly the Cesar Creaspo of 2005. Call up some other infielder (Pedroia?) or someone but this guy is the worst player on the team.

[riverside sluggers]

just thought id update the averages

 

Alan Embree... 7.83 ERA, oddly enough only reliever this evening that had best outing having 1-2-3 inning striking out 2

Wade Miller... 5.14 ERA

Ramon Vazquez... .197 batting average

Matt Mantei... 6.49 ERA, 4 walks this game in same inning?? 5 runs scored off him

Keith Foulke... 6.03 ERA

((add in)) John Halamma... 5.75 ERA