Redsox Off Season Vs. Yankees Off Season

[Chitalian Stallion]

Just an interesting Sox tid bit here:

 

Last year's opening day rotation plus the number 6 starter win totals for 2004:

(yes, I know wins are overrated, but here they are anyway..)

 

75 wins.

 

This year's opening day rotation plus the number 6 starter - if they collectively total the same number of wins they had last year.

 

71 wins.

 

I think Miller and Clement, if healthy, can win more than the 16 total games they won last year, don't you? They could probably both win 16.

 

 

According to Bill James Clement had 5 "tough Losses" probably because of the low run support so thats 14 wins from him (if he repeats the performence) and Miller, if he's healthy will get the extra wins we need.

[2090]

Keep in mind to take those numbers with a grain of salt. Matt Clement had only 9 wins, but horrible run support. The Red Sox are a better team in the field, and at the plate than the Cubs, so it's not totally unreasonable to predict 15ish wins from him in 2005.

 

Miller won 7 games last year in 15 starts. Give him 25-30 starts, he should be able to win 13-15 games if he's healthy.

 

Wells was 12-8 last year, I'm assuming he'll do the same...

 

If Clement OR Miller win 15 games, we're back to where we were last year.

Wells was 12 - 8 with a 3.73 ERA in pitcher friendly San Diego (Petco is the name I think (?)). Switching to the AL AND a hitter friendly park wouldn't hurt his numbers?

[stevece80]

Yeah, I wonder if Wells could handle the AL. Good point.

 

And a tremendously better awesome shouldn't provide him with better run support?

[elsrbueno]

Wells was 12 - 8 with a 3.73 ERA in pitcher friendly San Diego (Petco is the name I think (?)). Switching to the AL AND a hitter friendly park wouldn't hurt his numbers?

 

His last year in the American League (15-7, 4.14 ERA)

 

I'd settle for that from David Wells.

[2090]

Yeah, I wonder if Wells could handle the AL. Good point.

 

And a tremendously better awesome shouldn't provide him with better run support?

ya, but his ERA will definitely be in the 4's because :

 

1) Pitching in an NL park last year with already a near 4 ERA

 

2) Going back to the AL with a DH.

[2090]

His last year in the American League (15-7, 4.14 ERA)

 

I'd settle for that from David Wells.

He's 2 years older now.

[BoSox Rule]

Wells was 12 - 8 with a 3.73 ERA in pitcher friendly San Diego (Petco is the name I think (?)). Switching to the AL AND a hitter friendly park wouldn't hurt his numbers?

 

Look at his splits.

[2090]

Look at his splits.

If there's a risk with Randy Johnson's knee acting up in NY, isn't there a greater chance for Wells's back to act up considering:

1) Boston is even colder than NY (by a few degrees)

 

2)Wells doesnt stay in any shape whatsoever?

 

 

Gotta love the hypocrisy.

[2090]

also, didn't Pedro have a 3.90 ERA last year? It certainly was NOT 2.27.

[BoSox Rule]

also, didn't Pedro have a 3.90 ERA last year? It certainly was NOT 2.27.

 

What the hell does Pedro have to do with this?

 

I'm talking about Wells' home/road splits. He had a 3.31 ERA on the road, and over 4.00 at home in this AMAZING pitcher's park you speak of.

[stevece80]

I know many of you Yankee fans have a bit of a hard time grasping the concept of years closest to the current one being most significant, but can you understand that 2003 is much closer in the year view mirror than 2001? Significance? 2001 is the year Wells missed significant time with a back injury, the only year in a span from 1995-2004 in which he's pitched less than 200 innings. 2003 is the year RJ missed significant time with a knee problem. Wells doesn't keep himself in good enough shape? Randy Johnson has no frigging cartilage in his knee. None.

 

Want to know something even more significant? If Wells' injury causes him to lose effectiveness and have to retire, the Red Sox are on the hook for a low base salary and have to work to replace their #4 starter. If Johnson, who's been more injury prone in both his career, and in recent years, is ineffective or sits on the DL for most of his time with the Yanquis, they're on the hook for 48 million dollars and they lose their number one starter. Quit comparing the two pitchers, their situations are hardly analogous considering the expectations and monetary commitments.

 

The Red Sox clearly view 40+ year old starters are excellent depth moves. The Yankees are pinning all their overpaid hopes on one to make everything okay in Yankeeland once again. It's amazing how much a team that spends in it's own orbit continues to spin it's tires. Here's a hint, 2005 will be no different than 2002-2004 for the Yankees. I've seen this story before, it's called the 1980s. Get used to it.

[stevece80]

also, didn't Pedro have a 3.90 ERA last year? It certainly was NOT 2.27.

 

Can you read? Try again.

[yeszir]

The Red Sox clearly view 40+ year old starters are excellent depth moves. The Yankees are pinning all their overpaid hopes on one to make everything okay in Yankeeland once again. It's amazing how much a team that spends in it's own orbit continues to spin it's tires. Here's a hint, 2005 will be no different than 2002-2004 for the Yankees. I've seen this story before, it's called the 1980s. Get used to it.

Sounds eerily reminscent of Dan Duquette, to tell you the truth. Great to see that its the yankees we're talking about for once.

[stevece80]

If there's a risk with Randy Johnson's knee acting up in NY, isn't there a greater chance for Wells's back to act up considering:

1) Boston is even colder than NY (by a few degrees)

 

Hey genius, try this on for size. Let's say, by some chance, the Red Sox choose to have David Wells start Opening Day, so he'd be on the same schedule as Randy Johnson. Alright now, listen up, here's something that might take you a little bit of brain power to grasp, but here we go.....

 

First start of the season, they'll both be pitching the same night, in the same weather, in the same city of New York. Next start, Wells will be pitching inside of a dome, in Toronto, while Randy has to pitch in New York, which is colder than room temperature in April. Next start, David will be pitching in Boston while Randy will be in sunny Baltimore. Next start, Wells will be in Baltimore, while Randy pitches on the climate-controlled turf of Toronto. Then, it's off to Fenway to face those pesky Orioles on the frozen tundra of Fenway, while Randy takes on the warm Los Angeles Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles in the sunny confines of Yankee stadium. That's April, that's the extent of the cold weather, which typically is over by the middle of the month, but let's just assume it's so frigid in Boston all month just to give some validity to your argument.

 

I don't know how Wells' alledged back problems will hold up, while Randy's lack of cartilage in his knee will somehow be better off in temperatures mildly warmer.

[stevece80]

Sounds eerily reminscent of Dan Duquette, to tell you the truth. Great to see that its the yankees we're talking about for once.

 

Actually, Duquette's problem was he viewed stud starters over the age of 33 (see Clemens, Roger) who were a bit inconsistent, to be washed up. His main problem was giving good money to players who were a bit better than league average. To counter this, he found a few players that could produce league average or better numbers for very little money, like Daubach and O'Leary, and didn't know when to cut bait with them. O'Leary would certainly fall into the "good money for a player a bit better than league average". If Duquette were around in 2003, I have little doubt that Daubach would have been retained, and Ortiz would never have been in the fold. On the same token, I can see Mueller getting a fat 3 year extension after 2005 if he were in charge. I love Mueller, but his value to the team is right now, with the reasonable contract he's under.

[YanksHater213]

Troy O'Leary. I remember him, he was the man back in the day.

[Chitalian Stallion]

Even if Wells doesnt hold up we can try to get Ben Sheets with some of our prospects (that the Yankees dont have). But if Johnson doesnt hold up, who do they have to replace him? Sturtze?Oh yeah did you know that johnson hasnt won in yankee stadium since '91?

[elsrbueno]

Even if Wells doesnt hold up we can try to get Ben Sheets with some of our prospects (that the Yankees dont have). But if Johnson doesnt hold up, who do they have to replace him? Sturtze?Oh yeah did you know that johnson hasnt won in yankee stadium since '91?

 

How many times has he pitched in Yankee Stadium since 91?

[yeszir]

How many times has he pitched in Yankee Stadium since 91?

He's pitched 13 games there in his career, so it can't really be a lot.

[CrespoBlows]

2)Wells doesnt stay in any shape whatsoever?

 

 

Your basing this on what he did 5 to 10 years ago? Wells has lost nearly 20 pounds since 2003, when he signed with the Yankees, and he had back surgery in '02, he'll be fine. He did not miss a start due to his back, he missed those 4 due to his bad hand.

 

Wellsy, should be 16-5 with probably around a 3.75 ERA

[Yanksin2010]

Even if Wells doesnt hold up we can try to get Ben Sheets with some of our prospects (that the Yankees dont have). But if Johnson doesnt hold up, who do they have to replace him? Sturtze?Oh yeah did you know that johnson hasnt won in yankee stadium since '91?

Thats just great, but he's still an extremely dominating pitcher.

[yankeessuck013]

Keep up the good humor, Bronx.This year, will the Yankees money be enough to fill the void between the admriable baseball intelligence in Boston and the cover-your-mistakes- with-George's-money stupidity in New York? Only time will tell. With $ and players who cheat with drugs and ball slapping, NY should have the edge. Too bad, though, the title has to be won on the field and not in the purse department of a NY department store.

[YanksHater213]

Whats with the *

[goyanks9]

Our bullpen also has the advantage over theirs, especially if mantei comes through

 

Mantei has huge upside, and he could end up being a brilliant find by Theo. Just as much however, he could end up pitching just the way he did last year. The Red Sox bullpen does not have tremendous depth, with Foulke, Embree, and Timlin being your only reliable returning relievers. The Yankees have Rivera, Gordon, Quantrill, Karsay, Rodriguez, Stanton, and Sturtze--all who are reliable to some degree.

[Chitalian Stallion]

At least most of our bullpen isnt 35, 36, or 37

[stevece80]

Mantei has huge upside, and he could end up being a brilliant find by Theo. Just as much however, he could end up pitching just the way he did last year. The Red Sox bullpen does not have tremendous depth, with Foulke, Embree, and Timlin being your only reliable returning relievers. The Yankees have Rivera, Gordon, Quantrill, Karsay, Rodriguez, Stanton, and Sturtze--all who are reliable to some degree.

 

Actually, Quantrill, Karsay, Stanton and Sturzte were hardly reliable. Please, take your rose-colored glasses off when it comes to any of them. Gordon is a very good reliever, that is a habitual postseason failure. Mo's the only slam dunk, when he's not pitching against the Red Sox it seems, and I'd much rather have Foulke/Timlin/Embree in the postseason than Rivera/Gordon/(flavoroftheweek). Depth is BS, as you only carry 6 relievers in the regular season, one of which is the mopup guy, and you're relying on your 3 primary relievers in the postseason. It's nice to have "depth", but when there's two good relievers, and a bunch of interchangable parts, you're not a lights-out crew by any means.

 

Sturtze is feces personified.

[BoSox Rule]

Nah, goyanks9 knows what he's talking about. I'd say the only thing he was off about was Sturtze, but he can get hot.

 

And why would he be wearing rose-colored glasses? I would think they'd be dark blue, but that's just me.

[stevece80]

I know who goyanks9 is. I still don't agree.

[ahhchon]

Troy O'Leary. I remember him, he was the man back in the day.

 

gotta love that grand slam against cleveland!

 

john

[Tek04]

gotta love that grand slam against cleveland!

 

john

 

that was great