Clement Signs With Red Sox

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule+Dec 18 2004, 08:18 PM-->

QUOTE (BoSox Rule @ Dec 18 2004, 08:18 PM)

Originally posted by Yanksin2010@Dec 18 2004, 08:14 PM

[CrespoBlows]

Zenny is godlike when it comes to baseball. Don't make the same mistake Odysseus made.

[Gertie]

You've come up with no stats or anything to back up your assertions. All I've seen from you is a post talking about how another user needs to use tweezers to take a piss. Until you can prove what you're talking about, no one is going to regard what you have to say as anything more than idle, typical Yankee fan ********.

[Yankeesin05]

Yankeesin2010 just got OWNED by Gertie. Not all Yankee fans are like that though Gertie. I actually support my statements with facts and stats.

[Gertie]

No, yankeesin05, you're actually a productive member of the board. Without a few reasonable Yankees fans here, things would be a lot more boring. We're glad to have you, despite your unfortunate choice in allegiences.

[Yanksin2010]

Ok,

 

Pavano- career ERA- 4.21

 

Clement- career ERA- 4.34

 

Both very similar, you don't have a strong case defending either one as being leaps and bounds better than the other. Also, it wasn't as if I said as if I said that unprevoked.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by Yankeesin05@Dec 18 2004, 08:30 PM

Yankeesin2010 just got OWNED by Gertie. Not all Yankee fans are like that though Gertie. I actually support my statements with facts and stats.

Dude, i'm on your side.

[CrespoBlows]

Pavano played in a "baseball" stadium in Pro Player. Clement at the friendly confines of Wrigly field.

 

Wrigley = more runs

 

Pro Player = lot less runs

 

At Fenway the Green Monster kills lefthanders, but Death Valley is a far way from home plate

 

At Yankee Stadium that left field corner is going to look really small when Pavano pitches.

 

Clement misses more bats which will help him out a lot in the AL

 

Pavano is a fly ball pitcher

 

Advantege Clement

[empireII]

Originally posted by Yanksin2010@Dec 18 2004, 08:33 PM

Ok,

 

Pavano- career ERA- 4.21

 

Clement- career ERA- 4.34

 

Both very similar, you don't have a strong case defending either one as being leaps and bounds better than the other. Also, it wasn't as if I said as if I said that unprevoked.

You have to do better than that.

[Yankeesin05]

Lets put this thing to rest.

 

They both up-graded there teams in there own ways.

 

Difference is, Pavano had his break out year last year, and can expand from that.

 

Clement has been rocky his whole career.

 

Plus, I dont think Clement is in comparison to Pedro.He wont do a Hell of Job filling in, but he will get the job done.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by Yankeesin05@Dec 18 2004, 08:44 PM

Lets put this thing to rest.

 

They both up-graded there teams in there own ways.

 

Difference is, Pavano had his break out year last year, and can expand from that.

 

Clement has been rocky his whole career.

 

Plus, I dont think Clement is in comparison to Pedro.He wont do a Hell of Job filling in, but he will get the job done.

Agreed.

[BoSox Rule]

Originally posted by Yanksin2010@Dec 18 2004, 08:33 PM

Ok,

 

Pavano- career ERA- 4.21

 

Clement- career ERA- 4.34

 

Both very similar, you don't have a strong case defending either one as being leaps and bounds better than the other. Also, it wasn't as if I said as if I said that unprevoked.

 

ERA doesn't mean anything. An ERA of 1.74 in Fenway 2000 is better than an ERA of 1.12 in Busch 1968. Use a stat that matters, and makes it closer.

 

ERA+

Pavano: 100

Clement: 98

 

And even those stats are team dependant. According to Voros McCracken the only stats that matter are BB, SO, HR, HBP, BK, and WP. That's why he created DIPS.

 

BB

Edge: Pavano

 

SO:

Edge: Clement

 

HBP

Edge: Pavano, slightly

 

HR

Edge: Pavano

 

WP

Edge: Pavano

 

Balks

I don't have the numbers.

 

I'll concede that Pavano is better. But, it's pretty sad when I have to make your argument hold any water.

[Yanksin2010]

How can you say ERA means nothing? The only stat that means next to nothing is Win Loss Record.

[BoSox Rule]

It does mean something but it only has so much to do with the pitcher.

 

Well ERA means next to nothing, ERA+ is more accurate.

[Yankeesin05]

What matters most is what happens the second half of the season correct?

 

Well, Clement's ERA in the second half was 5.10, thats why he lost his rotation spot to Glendan Rusch.

 

While Pavano's ERA was 3.17 in the second half of the season.

[DOrtiz4prez]

I know that we can all agree that Clement has the best beard of the two.

[Yankeesin05]

I'll give you that, lol

[Chitalian Stallion]

what is ERA+?

[BoSox Rule]

# ERA+ - the ratio of the league's ERA (adjusted to the pitcher's ballpark) to that of the pitcher. > 100 is above average and

[The Colonel]

i haven't read any of this thread, but i wanted to add my 2 cents.

 

i'm not really sure how to feel about the clement signing. last year when we didn't get him during the nomar trade people were all pissed off. then in his last 10 starts the cubs lose 6 of them and he gets 4 losses and only 2 wins. this guy has good stuff but i'm not sold on him doing well in boston.

[Yankeesin05]

Especially if Clements ERA was 5.10 in the second half of the season.

[Chitalian Stallion]

DOrtiz4prez Posted on Dec 18 2004, 11:30 PM

  I know that we can all agree that Clement has the best beard of the two.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Amen

[schillingouttheks]

youch that was hard to read, try to quote correctly next time lol.

 

im not sold on the clement signing either, i mean his career record is sub-500 @ 69-75, has a career 4.34 ERA...i mean its decent, but i mean, i hope we can get better.

[BoSox Rule]

These are my predictions for our pitching staff next year.

 

I'm assuming Schilling will miss a good portion of April and not just Opening Day.

 

SP: Curt Schilling: 17-5, 3.05 ERA, 195 IP, 210 K, 1.05 WHIP

SP: David Wells: 16-8, 4.05 ERA, 210 IP, 140 K, 1.25 WHIP

SP: Matt Clement: 16-7, 3.95 ERA, 205 IP, 220 K, 1.30 WHIP

SP: Bronson Arroyo: 15-10, 3.90 ERA, 190 IP, 150 K, 1.25 WHIP

SP: Tim Wakefield: 13-11, 4.65 ERA, 185 IP, 135 K, 1.45 WHIP

 

Here are my team predictions: http://forums.netsports.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43904.

[YANKEESRULE]

I was just wondering if the players were reversed. Would all the Sox fans say that Clement was better Pavano. Look who cares as long as they can pitch. There's only a handful of pitchers that can get into batters heads. Pavano and Clement are not one of them. Look (and not because I'm a Yankee fan) I would have to say the Yankees pitching including bullpen is better then last year and better then the Sox. You lost Lowe and you lost Pedro. You have Schilling and Wells who have health issues. Schilling will overcome. Clement who is aradict. arroyo who is inconsistent and Wakefeild who is not the pitcher he once was. I will admit they all stepped up in the playoffs, but another year is another year.

 

Now the Yankees upgraded there bullpen. They have good pitching in Mussina. Who nows how Wright and Pavano will do. I think they will do fine. But we could have two Vazquez's. Kevin Brown when healthy can be a Ace. I think he will be good this year, because with the strong chance Of us getting Rj the pitchers will compliment each other. That's how the Sox did it in the ALCS. With our starters and our bullpen and if we add Beltran which we probably will, knowing George. Watch out. With all thease Stars its good we have the best Manager in Baseball in Joe Torre.

[BoSox Rule]

Joe Torre is a TERRIBLE manager. Have you ever seen how he runs a game? He sucks. A lot of Yankee fans agree.

[Yanksin2010]

Originally posted by BoSox Rule@Dec 20 2004, 09:45 PM

Joe Torre is a TERRIBLE manager. Have you ever seen how he runs a game? He sucks. A lot of Yankee fans agree.

I wouldn't say terrible, but let me put it this way: He falls asleep at the wheel quite often.

[BoSox Rule]

Well, yeah, terrible may have been an overstatement. He's nowhere near the best though. If I could pick one manager (Francona's amazing playoff managing doesn't affect this decision, but it almost did) I would take Lou Piniella, Bobby Cox, or Buck Showalter.

[schillingouttheks]

tony larussa?

[YANKEESRULE]

Joe Torre is not asleep at the wheel. The way he runs the clubhouse he has never had a ny problems. he's won the AL east 7 years in a row. 4 World Series. 6 American League titles. But, yea he sucks as a Major League manager. Don't give me the whole Francona thing either. In the beginning of the ALCS most of the Sox fans on here where on a witch hunt for him.