Who must we re-sign

[RedSox24]

I choose Tek

[Zenny]

Pedro is one of the best pitchers ever, the return of his sub-2.50 ERA is a must.

 

Varitek can easily be replaced by Kelly Shoppach and there are over a dozen cheaper and better free-agent pitchers to replace Lowe. You're new here, so I have to let you in on something. I am the official leader of the Kelly Shoppach fan club. Well, we don't have an official fan club, but I'm really pulling for Varitek to leave and Shoppach to get the starting job. It's probably pissing off everyone under the sun, but I think he'll be better in the long run and will save us money now.

[yeszir]

Nomar's not even an option? But from what you gave, its gotta be Pedro.

[RedSox24]

Pedro is getting older, he is still good and i love him cause hes a wearin red, but he is getting older, he barely throws 88 and gets injured a lot. With the 17 million we can get new younger pitchers. Also Varitek is a great catcher, i sont know who kelly shoplausaofij is but im sure tek is better.

[roary]

Originally posted by RedSox24@May 3 2004, 08:22 PM

Pedro is getting older, he is still good and i love him cause hes a wearin red, but he is getting older, he barely throws 88 and gets injured a lot. With the 17 million we can get new younger pitchers. Also Varitek is a great catcher, i sont know who kelly shoplausaofij is but im sure tek is better.

Have you seen Pedro pitch this year? The thing with him is, it doesnt matter what he throws, he can consistently get guys out. I dont care if its 88, 78, or 98. He's smart and can locate his pitches.

 

In the first few starts, yes, he was down at 88, but he has since kicked it up and is now throwing 90-91. Point is, I'd rather have Pedro on this team now than most any other pitcher in baseball.

 

As for Tek, I'd love to see him re-sign, but two things stand in the way:

1) Scott Boras

2) Kelly Shoppach

 

I've heard great things about Shoppach and I would love to see him on the sox in the future. I don't know where that leaves Tek though. Although he is a great player, he may now want to sign for one more year, and he may not be worth the money.

[CalvnHobs6]

I'm going to choose Pedro just because of Boras. He's gonna f*** us over with Tek and D-Lo. But if it weren't for Boras, I'd go with Varitek, he's my favorite Sox guy right now.

[Zenny]

Shoppach and Varitek now have the same number of homeruns (5) as each other in their respective leagues.

 

To let you in on it, Shoppach is one of the Red Sox top minor league prospects. He's a 24 year-old right-handed catcher who had the best defense in all of AA last season and is carrying that over to Pawtucket this season. He had a bit of a rough transition period to AAA pitching in the first couple of weeks of the season, but he's been on fire lately and hit two homers tonight and has a .514 SLG% after not even having a hit for a week. That's making up production in a short amount of time.

 

My reasoning for letting Varitek go and making way for Shoppach are as follows: 1) Shoppach is 24 and has a great deal of potential for the future, Varitek is 32 and his best seasons are behind him 2) Shoppach will only cost us $300,000 dollars next season, Varitek will cost around $10 million with what Boras is asking 3) Shoppach is the future of the franchise, while Varitek is only going to be an above-average catcher for another year, two tops.

 

Making way for Shoppach is cheaper (we need lots of money to sign our numerous free agents), gets the team younger and gives the Red Sox something to build upon for the future of the franchise. I like what he does for the Sox present situation better than what Varitek would do for it.

[CrespoBlows]

2 of the three will be resigned, because of the selflessness of (I never though I'd say this) Manny Ramriez. According to foxsports.com Manny has offered to defer five million dollars of his annual contract, to resign Pedro. Manny even went as far to defer another five million to resign Nomar. Mueller, Oritz, and Millar are also in the last year of their contracts. At least I think? Mueller can be replaced by Youkillis, but I would resign Ortiz then let Millar go. The Sox should sign a good cheap FA who can play a lot of positions. Craig Wilson of the Pirates is someone I'd love to play for the Sox. None of our top prospects will be ready until at least 2006.

[yeszir]

Originally posted by CrespoBlows@May 4 2004, 02:35 PM

2 of the three will be resigned, because of the selflessness of (I never though I'd say this) Manny Ramriez. According to foxsports.com Manny has offered to defer five million dollars of his annual contract, to resign Pedro. Manny even went as far to defer another five million to resign Nomar. Mueller, Oritz, and Millar are also in the last year of their contracts. At least I think? Mueller can be replaced by Youkillis, but I would resign Ortiz then let Millar go. The Sox should sign a good cheap FA who can play a lot of positions. Craig Wilson of the Pirates is someone I'd love to play for the Sox. None of our top prospects will be ready until at least 2006.

First of all, welcome to the site.

 

As far as manny's defferal, there's a thread on it, but I don't really see it as a selfless move. He wants to win, and realizes the team needs these players to win. He's still getting the money. He isnt reworking his contract so that he gets less money, its just over more time.

[pilumpyphi]

Without a doubt Varitek. Who's going to replace him? Mirabelli? I'd like to see him stay until Shoppach starts getting some time so he might Drew Bledsoe him a little before departing. We've got Schilling even if we lose Pedro and Lowe I would hope Theo would see this coming and sign one or trade one for a decent *young* starter. Florida would probably be looking to get rid of D-Train before he becomes too expensive. Pedro is much more replaceable than Varitek, can play every day and makes less than half. Granted you're not going to get someone equal to Pedro, but Schilling will be our ace and we could potentially get some solid starters to fill out the 3-4-5 slots. I'll take a rotation that looks like this: Schilling, Millwood, Wakefield, Clement, Kim. And I'd much rather see Tek managing them than some scrub.

 

I'm also looking at 2005's potential free agents (guys not signed beyond the end of 2004). They include Beltran, Magglio, Bret Boone*, Radke, Clement, Hidalgo, Beltre, Vidro, Odalis Perez, Orlando Cabrera, Millwood, Morris (*club option for 2005)

 

All those guys are worth spending some money on, or at least saving Pedro bucks and putting it toward developing some young talent of our own. It all comes down to money. For 2004 Pedro + Lowe = $22 million, Millwood + Clement = $17 million and they play for two different teams. Perez + Clement = $11.0 Million. For what you get out of Pedro these days (a guaranteed trip to the DL before and after the all-star break) I'd rather spread the wealth across the rotation AND the lineup.

[RedSox24]

do any of you know a site where i can find a list of players who can be free agents at thne end of the season

[yeszir]

Originally posted by GrassInZimsTeeth@May 5 2004, 01:10 PM

Without a doubt Varitek. Who's going to replace him? Mirabelli? I'd like to see him stay until Shoppach starts getting some time so he might Drew Bledsoe him a little before departing. We've got Schilling even if we lose Pedro and Lowe I would hope Theo would see this coming and sign one or trade one for a decent *young* starter. Florida would probably be looking to get rid of D-Train before he becomes too expensive. Pedro is much more replaceable than Varitek, can play every day and makes less than half. Granted you're not going to get someone equal to Pedro, but Schilling will be our ace and we could potentially get some solid starters to fill out the 3-4-5 slots. I'll take a rotation that looks like this: Schilling, Millwood, Wakefield, Clement, Kim. And I'd much rather see Tek managing them than some scrub.

 

I'm also looking at 2005's potential free agents (guys not signed beyond the end of 2004). They include Beltran, Magglio, Bret Boone*, Radke, Clement, Hidalgo, Beltre, Vidro, Odalis Perez, Orlando Cabrera, Millwood, Morris (*club option for 2005)

 

All those guys are worth spending some money on, or at least saving Pedro bucks and putting it toward developing some young talent of our own. It all comes down to money. For 2004 Pedro + Lowe = $22 million, Millwood + Clement = $17 million and they play for two different teams. Perez + Clement = $11.0 Million. For what you get out of Pedro these days (a guaranteed trip to the DL before and after the all-star break) I'd rather spread the wealth across the rotation AND the lineup.

I dont think Pedro is more replaceable than Varitek. If anything, he's less replaceable in my mind. We have Shoppach coming up in the system, and although there might be a gap between him and Varitek if tek doesnt re-sign, we could make do with a poor catcher, most teams do.

 

But Pedro is the best pitcher in the game, hands down. He's irreplaceable pretty much. None of the free agent pitchers are anywhere near his calibre. But if the sox got millwood and morris, and lost Pedro and Lowe, then I'd consider that addition. We pick up two good pitchers, and lose one great one and an ok one. But both of those players would carry big contracts, so nevermind.

 

And D-train, eh, I don't know. I'm still undecided on him.

[RedSox24]

i say we just get beltran...hes awsome

[YanksHater213]

tek, heart and soul of the team, great with pitchers, and can bust out the whoopin stick

[roary]

Originally posted by RedSox24@May 5 2004, 04:23 PM

i say we just get beltran...hes awsome

He's awesome and expensive. I don't think the sox should spend the 15 mil it would take to get him when we already have a mighty capable outfield. Spend the money where it is needed most, and fill the holes that are created by our FAs.

 

We cant just snatch up whoever's "good" if it doesnt fit what the team needs.

[pilumpyphi]

Originally posted by RedSox24@May 5 2004, 02:52 PM

do any of you know a site where i can find a list of players who can be free agents at thne end of the season

Check this out:

 

http://kmbumb.people.wm.edu/04agency.html

 

BTW: I forgot to mention Berkman, Sexon, Alou... check out the list. It goes on like this.

 

Beltran is the rare five tooler that I don't think the Red Sox have had on their team in quite some time. Damon was supposed to be that kind of player, maybe a 20/20 guy. Beltran's worth investing in. I'll take Beltran and prospects for Pedro and cash. Could you imagine Pedro out on the town in Kansas City? He'd go nuts thinin' "where the hell am I?"

[Nomar182]

i would choose tex. pedro is doing horrible this year. all he want is money

[roary]

Originally posted by Nomar182@May 27 2004, 11:20 AM

i would choose tex. pedro is doing horrible this year. all he want is money

What?

 

Anyway, GIZT, seeing former sox stars anywhere else is funny. No team (save the yankees and such) can comepte with the sox energy and passion. Seeing Pedro pitch in KC, in front of 8,000 a day would be priceless. Unless, of course, he beats us.

[YanksHater213]

why is lowe on the poll anyways...

[RedSox24]

because i made it after i think his first or second start when i wasnt sure he was gonna suck this much

[yeszir]

Originally posted by RedSox24@May 30 2004, 06:39 PM

because i made it after i think his first or second start when i wasnt sure he was gonna suck this much

Haha, suuuuuuuuuure......

[roary]

Nomar. No doubt. Pedro and Lowe seem worthless now, and Tek is less valuable than Nomar. Of course, we'll have to see how he plays, but I would take Nomar.

[GreenMonsterSeats]

I think we sign Varitek and possibly Nomar. Tek will be back because the ownership loves the guy, he works hard, is a good leader, and he works well with all of our pitchers (except Wakefield). I am shaky on the signing of Nomar as we are well aware that there are some decent free agents out there like Renteria which would then allow us to move some cash around to bring in additional players. I just don't think Nomar will want to return to Boston as much as there is talk that he loves Boston. Pedro has not shown he is worth $17.5M and we can obviously shop around though it would be terrible to see him go somewhere else and return to the Pedro of 1999. Lowe has pretty much sealed his fate that he will not return. There are plenty of young pitchers out there who have more promising careers ahead of them, then for us to waste money on Lowe.

[Tek04]

Varitek is the number 1 priority...hes the team leader

[yagmaster]

I still love Pedro even if his start hasn't been, well, Pedro-ish. He'll be fine, and I hope we stop him from, dare I say it, becoming a Yank. Tek is obviously important, and we've forgot how good Nomar is because he hasn't played for us this year. We have a tough off season ahead, but I think we'll make out fine and our owners have proved that they aren't afraid to spend money.

[Old Hoss]

I would choose Varitek but if Pedro is doing in five years what Clemens did after he left, then I'll have to slit someone's throat at that time........any volunteers?

[Zenny]

Catchers are always the first to lose offense. Carlton Fisk was an anomaly. Most of them can't hit their way out of a paper bag by 33 or 34.

 

Varitek is 32 right now and will be 33 for the first year of his contract. He's had injuries in the past and playing catcher, he could receive more of them in the future. I know you're all going to think I'm crazy, but re-signing 'Tek seems like a risk to me. I just hope Shoppach gets a little more patient and then we should be all set.

 

Also, this "field general" and "clubhouse leader" stuff seems over-rated, in my opinion. Sure, 'Tek's a nice guy who calls a decent game, but would signing him for the $10 million dollars a year he's asking for be reasonable when he starts hitting .240 with ten homeruns and then gets injured? I'm not sold on Varitek being a must-sign. PS- 'Tek has a road OPS of .733 this season.

 

The Sox already signed the "must-sign": David Ortiz. The rest are just after-thoughts, with the way things are. Pedro is having wrist and shoulder struggles. Lowe is the worst pitcher in baseball this season. Nomar hasn't even had a major league at bat. 'Tek is iffy for all the above reasons.

 

I think we should cut bait with all of them. Decline Mueller's option in favor of Youkilis. Re-sign Williamson and Pokey for $4 million bucks total between them and then offer the rest of these dopes arbitration. They ain't coming back for arbo-money, so they'll fly the coop to some other team. Being that these are all tier-one players, we'll get about eight first round and first-round supplemental picks for the '05 draft. That can then, in turn, be spent on more college players who would be ready to contribute by 2006 and 2007.

 

Technically, this still isn't rebuilding. Addition by subtraction, boys. Nomar has yet to play a game; Bellhorn has been spectacular filling in at 2B (look at the '02 stats, this is no fluke) and Pokey's a defensive whiz at SS and 2B. That wouldn't change from this season so far to next season. Lowe is awful. We could call up Abe Alvarez and get much better production from the next Tom Glavine. Anyone we put in there would be an improvement. Pedro has been Mister Inconsistent. I still feel that he's the best pitcher in the game, but that could easily change by the time the season is over, if his wrist and shoulder continue to be issues. Shoppach is having adjustment troubles to AAA pitching, but he's coming around. He has a .718 OPS now, but it will be around or above .900 by the time the season is over. He's a $300,000 dollar replacement at catcher with better defense, the same amount of hard work in game-calling and preparation and more offensive upside for the future at 3% the cost of Varitek.

 

Don't underestimate the Arroyo and Kim factor here as well. Let's say Arroyo gets a consistent changeup and improved ability to get out left-handers, which isn't out of the question. He's a $1 million dollar fifth starter who puts up a 3.50-4.00 ERA year in and year out. What about BK? I know he's on everyone's s***-list right now, but he has a career sub-3.50 ERA as a starter. If he gets healthy and his velocity returns (which are two very likely things), he'd be an outstanding #4 and would be a #2 on another team.

 

My '05 Sox would break down this way with estimated stats:

 

C-Shoppach (.250/.325/.450/.775; 15 homers)

1B- Millar (.275/.325/.450/.775; 15 homers)

2B- Bellhorn (.250/.400/.475/.875; 20 homers)

SS- Pokey (.250/.300/.350/.650; 5 homers)

3B- Youkilis (.290/.400/.400/.800; 10 homers)

LF- Manny (.350/.450/.650/1.100; 35 homers)

CF- Damon (.275/.350/.375/.725; 10 homers)

RF- Trot (.300/.400/.550/.950; 30 homers)

DH- Ortiz (.275/.375/.600/.975; 35 homers)

 

SP- Schilling (2.75 ERA; 215 K's)

SP- Free Agent (Perez, Milton, Morris, Garcia, etc.) or Alvarez at #5 (no real way to project)

SP- Wakefield (3.75 ERA; 125 K's)

SP- Kim (3.25 ERA; 175 K's)

SP- Arroyo (3.75 ERA; 125 K's)

 

MR- Timlin

MR- DiNardo

MR- Malaska

MR- Embree

MR- Anastacio Martinez

MR- Juan Perez (dominant lefty reliever pitching for AA Portland)

SU- Williamson

CL- Foulke (1.75 ERA, 45 saves)

 

That team is every bit as good as this year's team, possibly better now that Lowe is gone, and is between 1/2 to 3/4 the price we would have been paying if we had signed a lot of the free agents.

 

EDIT: I forgot the cool stats like homeruns, K's and junk.

[RedSoxRooter]

Originally posted by Zenny@Jun 6 2004, 11:11 AM

Pedro has been Mister Inconsistent. I still feel that he's the best pitcher in the game, but that could easily change by the time the season is over, if his wrist and shoulder continue to be issues.

If ya jump off the Pedro bandwagon, you're not allowed back on. Remember??? (so watch it!)

 

Of all the guys I'd resign based on talent, I'd keep Nomar and Tek. Nomar because I think of all the guys, he's the most dangerous. Tek I'm really torn on. I've been reading you tout Shoppach for forever and I believe you. But Tek's not washed up. Hardly. I see a good 3-4 more good years in him believe it or not. I think his contributions off the field DO mean something. But 10 million is too much. It's just hard to see him go. I hate change - even if it's for the better.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by RedSoxRooter+Jun 6 2004, 11:30 AM-->

QUOTE (RedSoxRooter @ Jun 6 2004, 11:30 AM)

[yeszir]

I'd really like to respond to these posts, (well, agree with them with some more stats and stuff), but as of right now I have a long ass biology paper to write ( a final paper), so I'll get on this as soon as I finish the paper.