Hugh2

Yes/No We get the #13 pick next year if we fail to sign him along with our other 1st round pick. Guys like Groome fall, but it's very rare that a guy who was rated the #1-3 prospect by every scouting source on talent pre draft falls that far. It would be highly unlikely someone as talented as him falls. The 13th pick is consolidation enough to not blow up their draft the next two years for Groome, but I think they are going to make a serious push for him. They haven't signed all 1-10 yet, Groomes team could be posturing in the hopes that the Sox try to save as much money on other picks to give to him. Think of it this way, If Groome turns down 4 million he'd be turning down the 2nd highest offer ever turned down to re-enter the draft in a much deeper draft and even though he still might be top 10 talent a LOT can happen. He has a rookie agent, this guy is probably just posturing and trying to make a name for himself. If he signs Groome to anything above slot he looks like a hero.

Well, left field isn't THAT far fetched but at this point 1B seems highly improbable for Moncada. Unless he turns into a balloon but can still hit I think he'd be traded before he ever touches first base in this organization. He's not just really good at baseball, he's an ELITE talent on just pure athleticism. IDK I could be wrong but I'd be pretty comfortable betting my first born child on that. Have you ever seen him Moon? If I'm not mistaken you are close to the Portland area no? so you should go check him out. The guy is so built he really stands apart on the field. Funny to see him stand next to Benintendi who looks like the skinniest guy on earth next to him yet he has some really big deceiving power. That's what strong wrists and bat speed will do for you!!!

I highly doubt the news is ever going to be "we're very close to signing, on the verge but we just want another 5K or 400K" high profile signings always go to the deadline. The Sox are notorious for signing their higher picks right up against the deadline. I think it's still much more likely than not he signs.

He just turned 21 a month ago and was out of baseball for over a year, so it's not like he's played it for "quite some time" like a 30 year old ss. Also according to many scouts he's taken a very large leap this year on his defense at second. Lastly, his defense isn't elite due to things like "consistency" which is common for someone raw and undeveloped. He has the range, arm, athleticism and instincts of an elite defender. You can't teach those last things, you teach someone fundamentals and develop consistency however. also many scouts see a move to CF/3B if he moves off of position, and while LF isn't as wasteful as 1B it's still a waste for someone of his talents. Again, I doubt we see him in LF.

I don't. Moncada is a much much better athlete with more defensive potential, anything is possibly but I'd be very surprised to see both these guys on the same team with Moncada pushed to the outfield. Benintendi could force the hand but my guess is best case scenario he is up in Pawtucket by August and may get a cup of coffee in September.

Moncada is easily closer than Devers, he's older and more polished and more athletic. Devers still has a huge ceiling with all star bat potential but I agree that Moncada takes that position (probably 3B) but I wouldn't completely rule him out of the outfield (not likely on this team). I can see Devers taking over at 3B if Moncada is trade bait or something else happens. I can also see him moving to 1B 2-3 years down the road, however he could also be trade bait. DD has a history of trading elite prospects, but the good news is he's pretty good about getting elite players back for them.

You're welcome, they have great stuff, and they release one about every month. They also have guests scouts from ESPN, MLB.com, Baseball America and others on their show too at times.

New Soxprospects podcast out. Mandatory listen if you are prospect loving folk, you can listen here but you might find it more convenient to download on stitcher or itunes. http://soxprospects.com/podcast/index.htm

I know it may be tempting but it might not be optimal to go out and get that one piece this trade deadline. You will certainly always overpay if you're a buyer, therefore it is only worth it to really go for it if you already have a very good chance of doing something in the playoffs. While this team is much better than last year, with a very exciting core and a dynamic offense it is still fundamentally flawed. It is plausibly we could move a ton of pieces for someone that will help us now, get hot at the right time, and get lucky in October. And I suppose there is not much wrong with that if you're 90 years old and want to see another championship now, but it might make more sense to wait until the off season and evaluate the trade market then.

If I was a G.M. I'd consider Liriano a much better investment than Clay. I wouldn't even think about it, I'd take him over Buchholz in a heartbeat.

So asking a player to focus a little time on a new position won't hurt them, but it will help them? I mean prospect development is kind of a zero sum game, if that time is beneficial then that means you're taking away from their development. Again, there is a reason why teams DON'T do what you're proposing. Why don't pitchers take more batting practice in the minors? And to reiterate Users point I think you're underestimating how crucial prospect development is. There is a huge mental side to the game, and filling a guys head with a bunch of scenarios of how he's supposed to play at one position but then have him go out and play another (even if it's a few minutes every day) can really screw a guy up in the head. If Moncada is going to move off of 2B you're likely not going to see it until he reaches AAA. And for the record, I never once said Pedey would switch positions so that was either a straw man argument or you didn't understand my point on the last page. Again, and I can't stress this enough. You CAN NOT look at prospect development from the top down, you take a bottoms up approach. You let a guy develop where he plays and where he has the most value. When he is MLB ready then you can either trade him if he's blocked, or if it is in the best interest of the team you can move him. But even then at the MLB level it can screw a guy up e.g. JBJ.

1. Reportedly his defense has taken big steps forward this year, which is expected if you keep a guy at a position and let him grow there. He could easily struggle trying to start over at a new position. 2. It could take him 3 years to become adequate at any position, he could easily become a good 2nd baseman quicker than switching to another position right now. How do we not know that Devers/Chavis/Shaw is our future 3rd baseman? how do we not know Pedey gets injured, traded, or drastically declines in two years from now? all of those are highly plausible to varying degrees. You don't interrupt a guys progression through the minors and switch his positions because of what might happen on the big club in a few years. I said it before and I'll say it again prospect development is from the bottom up....not from the top down. You let guys develop. Would you move Espinoza to the bullpen now because he's undersized and we might really need a set-up man in 2 years??? No you wouldn't. 3. Do I think it would seriously retard his growth? I think it could hurt and affect his growth yes, which is precisely why teams wait until players reach the upper minors to tinker with their positions. All things considered.

It wouldn't but giving a guy only 3 games above A ball or less reps at multiple positions would.

Ok fair enough, so lets revisit this position in a month from now if Moncada is absolutely mashing it in Portland. FWIW, everything I've read about his defense has eluded that his errors have come on balls on the ground. He gets to and makes fantastic defensive plays on whats in the air, and the kid has a strong arm too....sounds like LF/RF might be a better position for him than 3B. But that's speculation.

No I'm not saying that you're saying that. You're confusing outcome with strategy. It's like putting Mike Trout on 1B to get to the next hitter and he hits a HR, it might be the right decision with the wrong outcome. You can't completely contradict standard player development procedure and then claim you're not talking about radical change because that is EXACTLY what you're doing. I can call an apple a duck but it's still an apple. You're completely contradicting yourself here.

No offense Moon but you're kind of all over the place here, I'm not sure where you stand. Now you're trying make it sound more like you agree with us, but earlier in this thread it sounded like you were advocating moving guys off position earlier in their development. That's a bad ideal, it doesn't happend and it shouldn't happen. How do you even know he would make a good 3B??? what I've heard from a lot of scouts is they think his skills would transition better to the outfield. Regardless it doesn't matter, if his bat is still developing you don't switch him off position. It made it sound earlier that you are advocating making a guy develop his bat and switch positions at the same time. You don't do that, that is a horrible ideal with the only caveat being when a guy first is indroduced to pro ball or you move a guy from starting pitching to the bullpen.

So what you're saying is that you agree with me and the Red Sox on player development. You don't move a guy to a new position until he is on the cusp of his MLB career. Now that very well could be Moncada Towards the end of this season early next but the guy was JUST promoted from A ball.

So because MAYBE his bat is close to ready now we should move him to LF/3B because the teams needs him because HE MIGHT be better than those options at the MLB level a month or two down the road. Yet you ignore the argument, which is backed up by how every MLB team handles prospects, that players shouldn't learn new positions and levels at the same time while developing. Also, when we've thrown a new level and position at a player at the same time it has seemed to really set them back. We rushed JBJ up and stuck him in LF and that could have contributed to screwing him up for 2 years, Bogaerts at 3B to SS and his 2014. How do you not now that moving Moncada off of 2nd slows down his bat? because that seems to be the premise of why that is not done in player development. If that's the case then he is NOT going to be MLB ready this year. You're still not convincing me why your plan is better than one of MLBs best at player development.

So how come no teams do what you are advocating? what is it you know that they do not?

Fact, the Sox are better at developing players than me or you....stick to the plan and stay the course. You're talking to the wrong people here, you should be talking to those who develop the players. Sure, this is a talk forum but you're trying to convince me and others why your plan would be better than the Sox. You're not convincing me otherwise. We can't just do it because we could assume everything would work out great at it would help the MLB team. Again that's not how player development works. Teams are literally almost never doing what you're talking about for a reason. It is detrimental to a players development You can ignore that all you want why trying to justify why the Sox should do what you want them to do. But I will continue to advocate proper player development and good standards. I don't care what is happening at the MLB level. If the team needs a LFer now and Moncada isn't ready then you go out and get a LFer you don't force the issue and rush a guys bat AND his glove.

How do you know what Moncadas offensive value is at the MLB level? milb is tiered for a reason. It's not just fantasy, the jump from each level is significant and real, and even if an elite guy can move up to the next level and still mash doesn't mean they can do it by moving up two. Moncada JUST moved up from A ball. The last time we rushed a really really good player who had very little time in AA ball it appeared to screw him up for a few years (JBJ)

Still you are using the current situation of the Sox to justify breaking away from normal player development procedures. It should be all about the player and whats best for their development. When they are MLB ready then you can make it all about the team needs.

Ok, so why is Moncada the exception? And how do we not know Betts and Bogaerts wouldn't have grown slower if they tried learning a new position in the minors??? We don't.

Well, if the Sox move around money and offer him above slot it's really NOT on them if he were to ask for money that would put them above the 5% Reportedly 5th rounder Mike Shawaryn is asking for above slot, I'm thinking if anything this could screw up their offer to Groome. They moved enough money around to easily offer 4-4.1 million but if they have to go above slot for Shawaryn I don't know what they do. Reportedly Groome is asking (well his agent is) 4.4 from the Sox. Unless they are offering him below slot and not budging, it's really not on them. Worst case scenario is they get the #13 pick and much more pool money in a deeper draft. I want Groome, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

MLb ready after less than one week above A ball????