Hugh2

He's 24, not terribly young for a guy in AAA. I don't think he's a great prospect, but he was always a sleeper of mine. It's nice to see him healthy and off to a good start. I've seen him in person a few times too, he's built like defensive back. Very filled out and athletic frame. Actually the first time I saw Yoan Moncada the first player I thought of was Ramos.

A guy who is not often talked about who might end up helping the big league club this year is Henry Ramos. Ramos was a 5th round pick back in 2010, and he was one of those guys who was drafted for athleticism with the hopes of taking to baseball. He was soccer player before committing to baseball. He looked like he was progressing well and having a break out season in 2014 until he was injured. He's been dealing with injuries since then off and on, but he's healthy this season and playing well in Portland/Pawtucket.

I didn't think he should have been penciled in this year. I can see a cup of coffee and he could pull an Ellsbury on us but I always thought we should start thinking about him in the 2017 line up. AB first 84 PAs in Portland .203/.241/.270 his last 23 PAs in Portland .400/.478/.800 Both small sample sizes, but it looks like he's starting to adjust to the level.

I don't think his stock every took a hit, and I'm fairly certain his stock has been higher than Sam Travis for a while. It's too bad Swihart and Travis got injured though, they would have been nice trade chips that could be used to save the killer B's and the big 4.

Back in 2007 about a month after we won the world series I met Kevin Youkilis and Manny Delcarmen. Youk had a charity even the following day and was at Mohegan sun ring side for some Muay Thai fights. Since I was cornering a fight that night I had the credentials to be in the VIP area he seemed very unexcited to talk to a fan, Manny on the other hand was very nice, he was there with his wife and kids. Since he was a rookie I think he was still excited to have people excited to know who he was. I also ended up going shot for shot with a few of the Patriots offense lineman, but at this point I was inebriated and for the life of me can't remember who.

I hope Shaw gets out of his funk, he was starting to turn me into a believer. Although I always saw some type of regression coming I was hoping he wouldn't turn back into a pumpkin. Still, I will practice the same patience I show with everyone. He deserves an earned time, even the best players in the league slump. But over the last month he is hitting .191/.232/.319

Here are some of the guys I think have a low chance of signing and most of them likely will not. Name BA/PG Nick Quintana 165/73 Tyler Fitzgerald 187/116 Christain Jones 140/173 Jeff Belge 68/168 has already confirmed his commitment to St. Johns Charter Aldrete 456/357 Austin Bergner 165/73 Jon Rave 0/470 Cam Shepard 0/154 There are all high school guys who have a ton to gain by going to college and increasing their value, and with limited resources the Sox will not be able to offer any of these player above 100K. It should be noted, that the sox could end up signing several of these guys if they fail to sign Jay Groome and have money to work with. I'm sure some of these guys are their back up plan. I'd personally rather get Groome in our system than several Devon Fisher, Marc Brakeman types. I also want to point out that I could be very wrong on Nick Quintana. He was taken after the 10th round so the Sox lose zero money for signing him and he also was regarded pretty well but it seems pretty weird for the sox to sign a sign-ability guy with a low chance of signing that high in the draft. My guess is either they now something we do not and perhaps he is more singable than perceived or he is their #1 back up plan if Groome fails to sign.

For fear of continuing to derail this thread I will respond again kindly and suggest we take the conversation over to the minor league draft thread. My fault, I take responsibility for my part. But giving me examples over the last 2-4 years again does absolutely nothing. Firstly, just going back 4 years provides for 3 more years from players in subsequent drafts being able to reach the majors within 4 years. Regardless, that is a ridiculously small sample size, and also it suggests that all things are equal and they are NOT. The strength of each draft class varies and the strengths within it varies as well. zero HS pitchers were taken in last years draft in the top 12. Three were taken the prior year in 2014, but the highest rated guy talent wise has suffered injuries (Brady Aiken). The two years prior were also considered weak years talent wise, Trey Ball would never of been a top 15 pick in this draft. And only 1 HS pitcher was taken in 2012. Now this brings us to 2016, which was considered a very talented draft on the HS pitching side, now that talent might not materialize but that is what it is. We had six high school pitchers taken in the top 12 which was 50% of the top of the draft. Now you can sit here and point out that 5 were taken before him because they most of been better, and none of us truly know were teams had guys ranked talent wise but if that is your only justification for saying Jay Groome wasn't the regarded as the most talented pitcher leading up to the draft then I'd say that you just weren't paying attention to this years draft. Now, your original point was that my hypothetical projection was outrageous and expectations should be tempered. That statement is irrelevant and not needed. My original post eluded to that "outlandish" time line with the caveats "If he's as good as everyone hopes he is" and I also said "Too far away to rule out injury, bust or trade" So I've fully excepted the fact that he could reach the majors in a longer time frame or never at all but you miss my point. Right now he is regarded as having the talent to be a true top of the rotation talent and if he IS THAT then he could easily fly through the majors much quicker than a typical prospect without those limitations and stipulations that I admitted too. You don't have to temper my expectations, I'm fully aware of what can right or wrong in prospect development. I'm not making an outlandish projection, it's not outlandish at all because I'm not projecting him to be in the majors in 2-4 years. If he reaches his ceiling or comes close to it then I think he easily could fly through the system in that time frame...there is a difference between those two statements. P.S. I like Kyle Lewis, you guys got a good steal.

Yes but Hill you should now by now that I'm not your typical fan that reads one paragraph on a guy they draft and then never look at them again. I follow minor league baseball more than I follow the big league team. I also follow the MLB draft as much as rabid NFL fan follows the NFL draft. I understand to most fans its very boring and they don't understand the complexities of it. Do you actually think that other teams drafted 4 pitchers ahead of Groome because they thought he was more talented than them? I mean, I'm sure it's possible but Groome was almost by consensus the most talented player in the draft. The #1 ranked guy on talent often doesn't go number one. Sometimes they slip because teams prefer college talent because the floor is higher, or they go with a guy they have a deal cut with. Sometimes players slip due to sign ability, injury, make up etc etc. Yes you take the BPA, but that is a general rule that has many caveats that are very particular to the MLB draft. Now, if you remember me from the BDC forums you would now that I know my prospects. I bet on talent, I always bet on talent, and I'm 100% aware that they don't pan out. I talk about guys potential, but I'm the first one to point out when a guy doesn't make it that there is a risk associated with prospects. I was one of the only guy to defend JBJ over the years, or Bogaerts in 2014 yet I'm fully aware that I will get burned by the Lars Anderson, Will Middlebrooks, and Allen Websters of the world but I can live with that because I know that if you bet on talent and draft and develop well you end up with Bogaerts, JBJ, Betts in your lineup. I'm 100% fully aware that Groome might not ever make it above AA ball. That doesn't mean I can't get excited about the Red Sox drafting a guy who has more perceived talent than they've ever drafted. I'm prospects fan, and a huge draft fan so stop being a draft buzz killington.

He slipped because he reportedly was telling teams he wanted top 3 money, had sign ability issues, and had make up concerns. He didn't slip because of talent and everyone is trying to figure out what the "make up" conerns are now in the after math because there don't appear to be any there. The rumor in the scouting industry now is that some teams were floating around a ton of rumors about the kid because they wanted him to drop to their pick. One scout even said when asked what the craziest rumor about Groome he heard was that he was dead.

Good job posting an article that was about 6 weeks prior to the draft, which in draft weeks is about 2 years. Boards and scouting consensus is a roller coaster leading up to the draft.

While 2-4 years is admittedly very optimistic in no way is it unrealistic for an elite pitching prospect. Your quicky analysis is just that, quick and not insightful. You can't even consider the 2015 draft because this would be 1 year later, and actually you still have to the end of this season. The 2014 draft you still have until the end of this season, but the elite pitching prospect in that draft was Brady Aiken who got injured. 2013 was an insanely weak draft, the top high school pitchers in that draft would likely have ranked towards the bottom of the first round in this years draft. Remember not all draft prospects are created equal, and the talent varies, some years a draft is loaded with college pitchers other years the talent at the top is more high school players. If you look at HS pitchers who were considered elite and in contention for the #1 pick then you are NOT going to have an apples to apples comparison every year. And some kids who did fit that Profile like Dylan Bundy did reach the majors in 1 year, but then he got injured. James Taillion made it to AAA in 3 years and was knocking on the door before he got injured. Groome was arguably the #1 talent in the draft, and was considered the #1 talent by just about every outlet out there. I believe Baseball America had him 3rd but they also historically weight college players more. It could take 6 years, he might not ever reach the majors. But if the kid is as good as everyone says he is, then saying he makes it to the majors in 4 years or less is not a stretch.

JBJ. I always had faith that he would produce. I was one of his biggest supporters when he struggled and always maintained the position that he was rushed to the majors. I always thought there was a MLB player in him. But I never saw him being this good....I thought he had a chance to have an average bat with a gold glove. Now, not only is the glove golden but he's swinging the bat at an all-star level.

Not to nit pick, but I'd lower that time frame to 2-4 years. If he's as good as everyone hopes he is, we could easily see him as early as 2018. His fastball is already there, he already has a big league change up, and he has a feel for a change up. Scouts say he already repeats his delivery and mechanics very well which is a very good sign for a raw high school player. With him, his development could have a lot to do with just building innings and arm strength. Too far away to not rule out injury, bust or trade but having the prospect of Groome/Espinoza at the top of your rotation gives one a lot to dream on.

I don't know, the Sox drafting a young, 17 year old, Highschool LHP from the northeast, that was his reasoning for hating Trey Ball. That and apparently everyone on earth knew that he was the best talent left on the board at #7 even though he didn't go #8 either. I would have loved to seen him be the only, or one of the only guys to hate this pick.

4th Rd pick Bobby Dalbec is starting for Arizona right now on ESPN2

Bobby Dalbec 3B for Arizona, Huge huge power ceiling but not a great hit tool. Long shot to reach the majors but if he can put it together he could end up being a good pick, probably a pick they save some money on too.

Then there is this one too. Q: Hi Keith. What are the makeup concerns about Groome? Is it serious stuff or 17-yr. old immaturity stuff? Keith Law: To me it's immaturity and idiocy. No violence, no felonies, not a sociopath. I am more concerned about Delvin Perez's makeup than Groome's.

I'd be willing to trade anyone for the right guy, I would not trade Espinoza for Teheran. Dreaming of Espinoza and Groome at the top of a rotation is too enticing, and Espinoza is the type of guy who you center around Sale....who isn't for sale. Pun intended.

That's pretty much my thoughts as well. I think he slots somewhere in that tier with Sam Travis and Michael Kopech. Maybe he slides ahead of Kopech because he was a higher ceiling but Kopech does have more success as a pro than him. But given a full year of success he should easily leap frog in with the big 4 somewhere.

You know, I could of been ok with the Thaiss pick depending on how the spread around the rest of the money but I think it would have been tougher on people to have drafted him with Groome sitting there. By the way, whats you name over at soxprospects? I'm the GreatScottCooper.

I'm wondering if that is all there is too it, otherwise I didn't see anything else wrong with the kid. Did teams not like the fact that he was scratching off lottery tickets hours before he was drafted? Now, I don't know anything here or have any insight into the situation but inherently you'd think if it was something serious we would know about it. When kids fail drugs tests, or beat up their girlfriends that stuff is normally out there, you would think if it was something bad we would of heard about it by now. Personally I don't understand the problem with the improper transfer, he didn't change his address when he moved back to NJ because that's where his parents live and he never changed it when he went to boarding school at IMG for a year. Could it be that he choose to leave behind a school like IMG for a lesser one? I mean, we are talking about a kid who last summer JUST turned 16 and wanted to come back home and be with his friends! again, nothing that really throws a red flag with me. Still, one has to to proceed with some caution seeing how we've been burned by the likes of the Jon Denneys of the world in recent years but I think the talent was to good to pass up. And it's not even close, easy decision and as far as I can tell he's a good kid. AND he's a Sox fan.

Or how about Karsten Whitson, turned down 2.1 million from the Padres in 2010, goes to Boston in 2014 for 100K. Currently he's out of baseball.

He's a life long Red Sox fan, And we couldn't of asked for a better talent the last 2 times we picked #7. I don't see this kid not getting signed. It would be nice if he cut us a deal, but his price tag was 4 million. They could give him appx 3.35 million with the 5% overage before draft pick loss penalties kick in. After that, they will have to move around money elsewhere. They could easily sign a few guys with the 4th and 5th pick unranked and sign them 10K and move the rest of that slot money over to give Groome his 4 million. As I said earlier the only downside to this is it could hurt the rest of their draft, but whatever it's all worth it if Groome is 1/2 the player you hope he is. I'm going to throw my guess in the ring and say he signs for 3.75 million.

JJ Cooper @jjcoop36 Dodgers aren't the No. 1 farm system...Seager no longer eligible. Red Sox's system significantly better. I wonder were Groome will fit in? My guess is right after the big 4. But I could see him 5-6 behind Kopech and Travis until he at least proves himself in pro ball. But thats good news. #1 system, and a very good young talented team at the MLB level.