Hugh2

Because it's a forum and thats what we do amongst other things. But if there is overwhelming evidence that your opinion is wrong and not adhered to by any other team in baseball then why would anyone want to hold onto that opinion???? It's like this, if 100 out of 100 doctors told me to take this vaccination or I would die....I would believe them and take it.

What??? the team thought Benetendi was ready so they called him up and only switched his position for a very brief time as we said.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I remember the original argument and I'm pretty sure me and you were making the same point/argument back then about how teams generally develop players.

So if all our knowledge is limited compared to what the Sox know as you just said and apparently they always do this to guys as you just said then why shouldn't anyone believe that they did the right thing?

No, what you don't do is develop a guy out of position. You don't develop a guy at a position that might make more sense for the team down the road, you develop him at the position he's best suited for and comfortable at. That is protocol.

Yes I'm a thousand times more ok with it than saying "hey player xyz might not be able to play position w in 2 years so we should move him here now because that might be a hole in a year or two" No team in baseball operates that way. If 1/2 the teams out there conducted business like that I'd say you have a point but the fact that all 30 teams do not should tell us something right there.

This. And the conversation should stop after that sentence but somehow it's managed to turn into pages and pages of debate across multiple threads.

No last offseason was not the time to do it, because you don't change a top prospects decision based on what the team needs might be in 1-3 years. You make those decisions when a guy is MLB ready.

What has changed? the Sox developed him at 2nd base. When they thought he was MLB ready they moved him to a position where he was needed more. This is exactly in line with what people like me and User have been saying. The Sox did just that, and I think a lot of us agree with it. The Sox did not make a mistake, what mistake could they have made? when a similar situation occurs in the future they are going to go about it the same exact way.

right, lets go try something completely crazy and put guys into routines they are use to 2 games out and one month to go down the stretch because....I mean f*** it, it could work right?

It's not a right/wrong question. It's not like banking on a guy to be a boom or bust, it's a system of developing guys.

I was never sold on Shaw, I was calling for reinforcements at 3rd months ago when the 2016 trade and roster move thread was going. I thought Hill was a great trade, even though he hasnt' been great here but at the time it was a good trade. Hopefully Moncada can give the team the boost it needs there.

Well he inherited the 2012 club, and won it all in 2013. The 2014 team that was the same team that won it ALL in 2013. He blew up that team and made many of the moves that make up the team today. Including the preservation of guys such as JBJ, Bogaerts, Betts and he Traded for what amounts to 40% of our rotation today in Porcello and Erod. Also, Porcello was indirectly traded for Lester who is having about as good a year for about 1/2 the money. If you go back to one of his earlier trades for Stephen Wright then He's responsible for 3/5 of our rotation in Porcello/EROD/Wright. He brought in key guys like Napoli, Drew, Koji, Victorino, and despite pressure held onto the farm. And if you want to credit Epstein for those farm guys remember he was also the assistant GM during that time and still had a lot to do with bringing them into the system but guys like Hanley, Porcello, Wrigtht, Koji, EROD, and Holt have all been a part of this team this year and will be key going down the stretch. He also drafted Benintendi, so his finger prints are all over this current team too. Not saying he's perfect, never did.

The sample size is small, but it's also backed up with the scouting reports that say he looks bad at the plate vs. LHP. I suspect the problem will only be exposed more at the MLB level. Also, even though he "could" do all those things, I highly doubt it's going to happen. I highly doubt he's going to DH or play any 2nd unless Pedey gets hurt.

With a few Caveats such as Pablo Sandoval, there's an ever shrinking body of evidence against Ben C. being a horrible GM.

Oh dear god please not this argument again. We've been through this before, we are not smarter than the player development department of the Red Sox and every other team in baseball when it comes to developing prospects. This is exactly how we said it would happen; they'd keep him at his natural position they thought he fit best and move him only when they thought he was ready/near ready and a positional change made sense at that point. That's exactly how it's happened in the past, it's how other teams do it, and it's how it happened again.

Ok, I suppose I understand....perhaps I was just expecting it and was let down. #releaseMoncada

I honestly don't understand why they couldn't just bring him up a day earlier, one freaking day. If he smashes, which is a decent possibility then he makes this team so much better and more dynamic.

It's the stats plus the scouting, you can really see the difference in his swing from the right side of the plate. The consensus is from those who have been scouting him is that he needs work against LHP and he would really struggle at the MLB level. Now, long term this is nothing to worry about, it's not like he's OPS in the .500 over there and he's very age advanced. I'd look at it more as him being way ahead of the curve from left side than him being behind from the right side.

at the end of the day, JBJ has had what amounts to a bad month. I'm not worried, players are streaky....with his defense people just wanted him to be a non black hole at the plate. Everything above that is just an awesome bonus.

Moncada could come up right now and probably hit RHP from the left side of the plate well, he's close to ready. However, he'd be a black hole from the right side as he obviously needs more work over there. He may or may not see time in September, but I think some time in the AFL is possible as well to give him more reps at 3B.

You kept on reiterating that Moncada should be moved to 3B. At this time I believe he was still in A ball or at least just out of A ball. No one can decipher how MLB close a guy is right out of A ball, even if he is mashing it in AA for a week. But again, you develop a player where he fits best NOT where he fits best on the team. You can re-evaluate that process later when he is ready or maybe close to ready as they did with guys like Andrew Benintendi, Xander Bogaerts and Mookie Betts. That's the way it is and always will be, and at the time it was being suggested when Moncada was (I believe) still in A ball. There is no argument to be said on the issue now even in hindsight just because it happened. Mostly anyone could have predicted Moncada would eventually move off of 2nd base with 3RD being a likely destination, the question was WHEN it would happen. Teams don't have a schedule when a guy is going to move. If Moncada is the future 3B does that make Devers the future 1B??? should they switch him now? he's been killing it in A ball for about as long as Moncada did at this point so why not? No we won't do that, we will continue to let him play at 3B and if there is no opening there in 1-2 years or he isnt' used in a trade but looks like a good slugging MLB player they will switch him to 1B. That's a very likely scenario on this team, if Devers and Moncada both have a future on this team there is a strong possibility that he moves to 1B but the team isn't going to develop him there because that is not how player development works. But they aren't going to do that why he is still developing.....just like they kept Moncada at 2nd while he was still coming up through the ranks.

It wasn't an issue about being right or wrong it was an issue about player development. You didn't understand why a guy who was far off from the majors and in A/AA ball shouldn't move positions and we were telling you what teams do and why they do it. MLB teams still do that and will continue to do so, nothing has changed. I still don't understand where the argument is here. You're not just disagreeing with us but you're disagreeing with just about every MLB teams philosophy on player development. When we gave you an explanation of why things are that why you rejected it. Also Moncada is a freak, we've known this for a while. But plenty of "freaks of nature" never hit their way out of A ball. Moncada is a freak who is performing and there is zero way of knowing a guy will perform until he is there doing it. Nobody had a crystal ball a month ago and nobody every will. It's futile to say anyone predicted a guy would turn into a guy because all things considered there are only two main permutations. A guy is a guy....or a guy can't hit at the next level.

No I think the argument is being changed here in hindsight. What teams do is develop a guy at his natural position and move him if there is a hole to fill and the guy is ready or close to ready. What we were arguing against then was the notion that because it looked like Moncada was blocked and his position on the team would be another position that he should be moved in advanced. It's still 100% true that you don't move guys to a position based off of what the team needs might be in a year or two. That's not how development works and it never will be. Nothing which has transpired has changed that argument. They likely view Moncada as close to ready and see 3B as a viable option, and I'm sure there are other factors involved in that decision besides Pedey playing 2nd such as Shaws struggles recently. Moncada is a phenom, that still validates our argument even if it is a month or two later. It's not like teams sit down and have a schedule of the exact date a guy is ready or will switch positions. It's not as if the team has it marked May 25th 2018 Devers will move to 1B. It was a silly argument then, and it still is now.....and no one here ever doubted the ideal that he would/could eventually move off of position the argument was when it should happen and at that point in time Moncada was in Single A.....he was in A ball!!!!!!!!!

Obviously size, strength and leverage are a big function of power but people often underestimate how much is in the bat speed, wrists and swing path. I don't Benintendi is going to be a perennial 30 HR guy but I think he'll easily hit 15-20 most seasons in his prime. He has doubles power too, and the speed to stretch some of them into triples. You don't have to be big to be a HR threat, just look at what guys like Mookie Betts and Altuve are doing this year.