Hugh2

If only Carson Smith was a few months further along he could really solidly the pen. Or, he could struggle recovering from surgery. The range of outcomes seem wide.

I don't disagree, but there will be other teams who can pitch come playoff time and we need to hit.

A 1B that can pick up the slack with Moreland slumping + Devers might be the spark this team needs

I never truly bought the bringing a guy up too soon will ruin him either. A guys development gets stunted when is injured or sitting on the bench not getting at bats. Also FWIW I've heard nothing but good things about his defense.

Ben would have never had the balls to make the moves DD has made, but DD wouldn't of had the patience that allowed Ben to accumulate the assets DD used. They are different GMs for different times.

Touché I forgot about Florida

Cofveve boy has a ring, DD does not.

Not sure what's up with the animosity dude but whatever it's cool. I think you failed to see my original point. The Reds are going to demand that for Votto, that doesn't mean he's worth it...(the point is coming here) it means the Reds have no interest in selling on Votto. They don't exist to do us any favors. If they did intend on selling Votto then one has to consider the premium teams pay at the trade deadline. Teams always overpay, so the fact that that would be on overpay is mute. To be fair I don't really know what it would cost to get Votto but my original point was I don't think the Sox would be willing to pay that price, and I don't think the Reds would just give him to us for what we think he'd be worth. It's not realistic.

Weak argument, go back and reread what I wrote. I didn't use Lees contract I used the offers he got. Yes he got injured, hindsight is 20/20 but in no way shape or form does that change the market at present. 3 teams were willing to pay him that money, that's the point. That's just one example, I could care less about the results or another teams record the point was what the market is. And I don't think anyone would agree the market has depreciated in recent years.

This is completely unreasonable. They had staff leave their organization to become professional scouts, which is a testament to the level of professionalism they have. I've been a big fan of Sox prospects for a long time and spend more time there than here. I can tell you from years of experience they are the exact opposite of a hype machine. Very often they are lower on prospects than almost everyone out there who is unreasonably high on them. Henry Owens for example, everyone was talking about him being a #2 starter and they thought he was more likely a #4 guy if he could hone in his command. They were also lower guys who busted like Lars Anderson as well, I spefically rremember a podcast where they thought BA had him ridiculously way too high in their rankings. Sure, they don't have the same resources and amount of scouts as any professional team but what they do have is more eyes on our guys that BA, Keith Law, MLB, or BP or anyone else has. Those organizations use soxprospects as a reference all the time. Because of this, they are often the first guys to hype up players that sometimes DO become players before anyone else even has a clue who they are. Guys like Mookie Betts and Xander Bogaerts.

Soxprospects pretty much never gives out an 8, its almost impossible and ufair to do so. Even if you had the next Ted Williams in the system now you'd probably have him as a 6 or a 7. You can't throw that label on a guy until he's actually in the middle of doing it.

Good post, people should really educate themselves on such issues if they find them interesting. We are extremly lucky as Sox fans to have a resource such as soxprospects as there is literally no other teams fan base that has the type of access to scouting, info, discussion and insight into their farm system.

That just goes to show you nobody truly knows. You can't predict with 100% certainty how another human being is going to physically and emotionally develop.

Greinke got 206 million for 6 years at 32. Salaries are ridiculous, just wait until the Machado. Harper generation starts getting paid. Stanton's 300 million will look like the new norm.

It's 6 years, not 7, and Votto is still 33. Cliff Lee was getting offered 132 and 138 million dollars from the Yankees and Rangers at 33 years old. That was 4 years ago and salary inflation has been going up appx 10% in baseball. I know it seems crazy but Votta would probably get paid something very close to what he's owed in free agency. He's easily one of the best hitters in all of the baseball and has shown zero signs if slowing down, zero. Now maybe the Sox and no team would want to give up top prospects for Votto, I disagree with that but perhaps I'm wrong. If I am wrong. I'm fairly certain, as I said before, the Reds aren't giving him up without a significant return. Smaller market teams don't exist for our pleasure and to make trades for us. It has to work for them and they have to sell it to their fan base. I highly doubt they are interested in salary relief.

Sox gave up two top 100 prospects for a guy making close to market money in Kimbrel. Votto would demand a steeper return than that. Maybe if they were interested in rebuilding they would take S. Travis/Groome/Chavis/Matta

The Reds aren't trading Votto, you can take that to the bank. Not sure about the rest of your point, is anything being up against the cap makes us less likely to trade for Votto

The guy is a career .964 OPS hitter and is showing no signs of slowing down with his 1.014 slash line now....he's also on the hook for 25 million a year in an era when guys putting up his numbers are starting to get over 30 a year. That's 150 million left, which isn't that big nowadays. But you're right, I don't think teams are lining up to give up prospects and eat that contract but why would the Reds just give him to us then? He is the face of their franchise, do you really think their ownership is going to trade him to us for peanuts just to clear out some payroll? That's not happening.

He could replace Young on the roster next year, and will definitely get a look in September. Perhaps sooner? Idk. Maybe he's for real, but excuse me for being skeptical after stalling out in AAA for five years. I'm willing to give him a shot as a 4th outfielder and if he's for real he could get more AB's as a DH. But I'm not ready to start him so we can trade one of our three outfielders as suggested earlier.

And whose spot is he going to take in the lineup? He's not better than Betts/JBJ/Benintendi

Brentz? or Devers? who are we talking about here

Brentz is a 28 year old career minor leaguer who has repeatedly failed at the upper levels. I'm not convinced he's turned the corner. Perhaps he has but I wouldn't risk years of control from talents we have in the of now. And Votto as good as Votto is he's still on the hook for 25 million a year from age 33-40. Votto is also the face of their franchise, they aren't going to consider trading him without getting blue chippers in return. The only blue chipper we have is Devers.

Stanton would cost you one of JBJ/Betts/AB + Devers + Matta. You upgrade a position that doesn't need upgrading, and you downgrade your defense. Meanwhile you've just depleted your farm system with no solution for the gapping hole at 3B and you gurantee you stay over the luxury tax. I'm starting to jump on the Alonso boat. Alonso + Devers on the corners might be the spark this offense needs.

Fair enough, but all teams have guys like that....although to be fair we seem to have a much higher success rate overall despite the lack of developing pitching.

Let's imagine a hypothetical situation where Carson Smith was healthy and a viable setup man. This team could completely rebuild their system by trading him and Kimbrel. Obviously, we don't want to do this as we want to compete, but I'm just trying to eximplify the fact that the costs for relief pitching has gone sky high.