Hugh2
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Everything posted by Hugh2
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This conversation is pointless and going in circles. I hate the trade, you guys like it. f*** it, it is what it is. I can get on board with being happy that the team got a guy who solidifies this rotation, and if history is any lesson he might be getting better and we have him for two years. DD has made every move so far to fill every hole, this team is a legit contender for the WS now. I can get behind that, but I will remain disappointed we lost Espinoza, but I'll try to shelve those feelings until he's winning the Cy Young in 4 years from now.
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Well, Pablo should have lost 30.
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I never said they didn't get better. And I hate arguments like this because I feel like it makes it seem like I'm taking the position that Pom makes the team worst, he doesn't. I'm excited to have him here, I just fear what we will lose in Espinoza. Yes he might not ever make it, but if we took that position with every prospect we wouldn't have the team we have now. The days of buying teams are over, you have to develop talent, and if I'm given up some of that talent which is regarded as one of the best guys in the minors with perhaps the highest ceiling.....I would have hoped for a more proven guy. Now Pom can prove me wrong, but if people think he is without risk they are mistaken.
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I did not measure him myself, I just read the scouting reports and have heard from multiple reports that he's grown. I have zero reason to not trust that. I'm very calm, just because I have an opinion that differs from most of the people in here and wish to discuss it doesn't mean I'm otherwise. Also, can you show me any proof or reason to believe they are questioning Espinozas make up? I've never heard anything bad about his make up ever, at all, not once. Where did you hear that?
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Well, maybe it's an issue to DD.
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I don't care what the article you just googled said, how do you know that article is more accurate than the very next one that says differently? what percentage of guys stop growing at 18. Is it 50% 75% 90%??? and I don't care if Espinoza doesn't put on another inch so it doesn't really matter. He's not big, but he's not that small anymore either. I'll trust the scouting reports from baseball america and soxprospects over people who probably have not seen him recently if at all and you can go to soxprospects and look at some recent video of him and compare it to older videos....he's obviously gotten bigger. Like I said, he's not huge, but he's big enough to where it's not an issue anymore.
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http://www.medhealthdaily.com/when-do-men-stop-growing/ Well depending on what you reference "few cases" turns into "many men" will continue to grow until the are 21 and some 25. considering he's put on an inch the past year I don't think it's highly unrealistic he grows another inch. Regardless he's not as small as he was when he signed and Pedro comparisons (size wise) are no longer valid.
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Anderson is not probably 5'10 he's about 6'1 and he's put on at least 20 LB's since he's entered the organization.
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I never said I expected him to grow a lot more. I put on 2 inches after the age of 18, he's already put on at least 1 more since he signed. He still has the capacity to put on some weight to his frame. Standing 6 foot 1 6 foot 2 isn't huge, but it's not exactly like you're standing at 5 foot 10. If you read the updated scouting reports on Anderson Espinoza you'd know that he's put on some size and it's less of an issue with him.
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If I'm trading a blue chip prospect, I better get a guy more proven back in return. I like Pomeranz, but not for Espinoza.
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He's about 1-2 inches shorter than him and 20 LB's at 2 years younger. You could easily project Epsinoza to be close to that size in several years when he's done growing and fills out. And his name is Kopech.
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That's been the story with Espinoza, but he's also been growing and filling out. I believe he's grown 2 inches and put on 20 LB's. At 18 he might not be done growing.
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Well if thats the theme I hope Pomeranz is the next Max Scherzer who didn't really become a great pitcher until he was traded for by DD and had been in the league for 6-7 years.
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Bogaerts for only 3 more after his year.
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Yes his ERA is in the mid 4's because he's tired. He's insanely advanced for his age, he's the same age as a highschooler facing college aged hitters. His arm is young and still building stamina, it's very common for someone like him to fatigue. I'd be willing to bet Espinozas ERA goes even higher and his prospect status and rank doesn't go down one spot by the year end rankings. BOOK IT, also of note he was the youngest player in single A baseball. I'm aware we were'nt getting anyone for Owens or Ball, I never suggested we would so I don't know where that comes from. This team is flush with offense and has more offensive prospects, I would have easily rather of traded Devers+ for the guy.
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2016 MLB Draft Thread.
Hugh2 replied to Hugh2's topic in MLB Draft, International Signings, Amateur Baseball
It's not uncommon for someone in his situation to hold out, it's a business and I'm sure a 17 year old and his family are just listening to his advisor. I wouldn't hold that against him and I'm not going to call him names. If I was in his position, I'd do the same exact thing if I thought I could get more money. He's forgoing going to college and if his arm blows up this could be his once in a lifetime chance at a big payday. Also we don't know when the Sox even started negotiations with him. -
One thing is for sure.....it's a sellers market right now.
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how is a guy who has never pitched more than 102 innings at the MLB level arguably a #1 pitcher??? How is he going to handle himself in the A.L. east and in a hitters park? How is his stuff going to play up at 150 innings plus? in the playoffs when he's fatigued? How is a guy who has average one of the highest P/PA in baseball going to fair against A.L hitters at Fenway? The guy is good, and I actually advocated for him in the trade thread before anyone else (that I can remember) but it's not like he doesn't come without questions. No true top of the rotation starter has serious questions. I hope I'm wrong as he could just be continuing to take steps forward and excel here, but I can just as easily see him not being more than a #3 #4 starter here. Yes, that still makes this team a lot better right now, but It came at a very steep price.
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We mine as well trade Moncada for someone to replace Taz now.
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Casey kelly wasn't as highly regarded as Espinoza. And yes, good for you, you found an example of a prospect who busted, there are many of those. It happens. But I specifically remember people left and right bringing up Lars Anderson when I advocated to never trade away Bogaerts. So yes, Espinoza could never crack a MLB rotation, he could also be a future MLB Cy Young winner. When you bet on young talent, you usually end up winning in the long run.
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2016 MLB Draft Thread.
Hugh2 replied to Hugh2's topic in MLB Draft, International Signings, Amateur Baseball
@jonheyman: red sox, jason groome have a deal. $3.65M pending physical.” Looks like I was right in my prediction that he's going to sign for much less than everyone was predicting. This is good, hopefully they can get some more talent in the system for DD to trade away. I really like Quintana, he's a good talent and it sounded like he really wanted to sign and get his pro career started. -
Exactly, we traded for a guy that has never pitched more than 150 innings a season and never more than 102 at the MLB level (this year) How do we know this guy can even stay healthy and hold down a rotation spot for a full season the next two years. He's literally never done that before, I like Pomeranz and actually advocated trading for him but if I had known Espinoza was the cost I'd easily be ok with not pulling that trigger.
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I was 1/2 joking. But when his job was on the line and the team was falling apart he held onto Bogaerts, he held onto Betts, and he held onto JBJ. Could you imagine this team today if the Sox traded away 2 out of 3 of those guys? He preserved the system that is part of such a young elite core today.
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People have every right to like this trade, I get it...you're trading the future away to win now. Nothing wrong with that. But I have every right to hate this trade, I like building a system from within, and developing your own youth. Yes prospects bust, but if 1 out of Espinoza, Groome, and Kopech reach their potential it would easily by miles be worth it and worth more than Pomeranz 10 fold. In 2-4 years from now I can see people in here freaking out because the pitching stinks and trying to figure out how we can trade for some of the best pitchers in baseball. For all we know that could be Espinoza in 2019 2020. Again to each their own, but I'm not 80 years old and need the Sox to win today.
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Can someone please bring Ben back.