Hugh2

Ben became the G.M. after the 2011 season, the Sox traded for Stephen Wright at the 2012 deadline.

Lets analyze his 4 years: 2012: inherited team. shed over $250 in payroll and used it to acquire Napoli/Victorino/Drew/Koji. 2013: results from last years move result in WS win. 2014: same team he built that won it all finishes last, even if you don't excuse him for the under performances and injuries it's still worth it 100 out of 100 times. 2015: does not finish year with the system. However the team that he largely built finished strong at 32-12 down the stretch which has carried over into a contender this year. Without even mentioning the prospects he had his fingerprints on under Epstein Ben C. is responsible for the following players on this team, just off the top of my head here. Hanley Ramirez Sandy Leon Yoan Moncada Andrew Benintendi Brock Holt Rick Porcello Eduardo Rodriguez Koji Uehera Stephen Wright. If this team as constructed wins it all over the next 3-4 years Ben C. deserves a lot of credit, not to take anything away from DD.

From what I remember Users main point was the same as mine. You don't develop a guy at a position he might or plausibly could switch to down the road. FWIW I don't think the team ever planned on Bogaerts playing 3B long term when they put him there in 2013. I'd be willing to bet the plan was to move him back to SS all along and they just threw him in there because they thought he was a better option than WMB and he was. But again, they developed him where they thought he played best at SS...which is exactly what they did with Moncada. They are giving him reps at 3B for a few weeks because they thought he was ready and thought that's where he would fit in this year. That is exactly what me and user have been saying, you switch a guy when he's ready and there is a need elsewhere just as they've done with Betts, Bogey, and Benintendi.

No this was based on the fact that earlier in the year most would not have penciled him into being brought up this early. The Sox are being overly aggressive as DD has a reputation of doing. Our position was, if the team thought he was ready or close to ready it makes sense to move them and give them a little bit of time at a new position. There is a stark difference between that and developing a guy at a new position. And that is not the same thing as "giving him a few innings over at another position because he might move there one day" that is something else organizations just don't ever do with a guy unless they feel his ultimate role is a utility profile.

Because it's a forum and thats what we do amongst other things. But if there is overwhelming evidence that your opinion is wrong and not adhered to by any other team in baseball then why would anyone want to hold onto that opinion???? It's like this, if 100 out of 100 doctors told me to take this vaccination or I would die....I would believe them and take it.

What??? the team thought Benetendi was ready so they called him up and only switched his position for a very brief time as we said.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I remember the original argument and I'm pretty sure me and you were making the same point/argument back then about how teams generally develop players.

So if all our knowledge is limited compared to what the Sox know as you just said and apparently they always do this to guys as you just said then why shouldn't anyone believe that they did the right thing?

No, what you don't do is develop a guy out of position. You don't develop a guy at a position that might make more sense for the team down the road, you develop him at the position he's best suited for and comfortable at. That is protocol.

Yes I'm a thousand times more ok with it than saying "hey player xyz might not be able to play position w in 2 years so we should move him here now because that might be a hole in a year or two" No team in baseball operates that way. If 1/2 the teams out there conducted business like that I'd say you have a point but the fact that all 30 teams do not should tell us something right there.

This. And the conversation should stop after that sentence but somehow it's managed to turn into pages and pages of debate across multiple threads.

No last offseason was not the time to do it, because you don't change a top prospects decision based on what the team needs might be in 1-3 years. You make those decisions when a guy is MLB ready.

What has changed? the Sox developed him at 2nd base. When they thought he was MLB ready they moved him to a position where he was needed more. This is exactly in line with what people like me and User have been saying. The Sox did just that, and I think a lot of us agree with it. The Sox did not make a mistake, what mistake could they have made? when a similar situation occurs in the future they are going to go about it the same exact way.

right, lets go try something completely crazy and put guys into routines they are use to 2 games out and one month to go down the stretch because....I mean f*** it, it could work right?

It's not a right/wrong question. It's not like banking on a guy to be a boom or bust, it's a system of developing guys.

I was never sold on Shaw, I was calling for reinforcements at 3rd months ago when the 2016 trade and roster move thread was going. I thought Hill was a great trade, even though he hasnt' been great here but at the time it was a good trade. Hopefully Moncada can give the team the boost it needs there.

Well he inherited the 2012 club, and won it all in 2013. The 2014 team that was the same team that won it ALL in 2013. He blew up that team and made many of the moves that make up the team today. Including the preservation of guys such as JBJ, Bogaerts, Betts and he Traded for what amounts to 40% of our rotation today in Porcello and Erod. Also, Porcello was indirectly traded for Lester who is having about as good a year for about 1/2 the money. If you go back to one of his earlier trades for Stephen Wright then He's responsible for 3/5 of our rotation in Porcello/EROD/Wright. He brought in key guys like Napoli, Drew, Koji, Victorino, and despite pressure held onto the farm. And if you want to credit Epstein for those farm guys remember he was also the assistant GM during that time and still had a lot to do with bringing them into the system but guys like Hanley, Porcello, Wrigtht, Koji, EROD, and Holt have all been a part of this team this year and will be key going down the stretch. He also drafted Benintendi, so his finger prints are all over this current team too. Not saying he's perfect, never did.

The sample size is small, but it's also backed up with the scouting reports that say he looks bad at the plate vs. LHP. I suspect the problem will only be exposed more at the MLB level. Also, even though he "could" do all those things, I highly doubt it's going to happen. I highly doubt he's going to DH or play any 2nd unless Pedey gets hurt.

With a few Caveats such as Pablo Sandoval, there's an ever shrinking body of evidence against Ben C. being a horrible GM.

Oh dear god please not this argument again. We've been through this before, we are not smarter than the player development department of the Red Sox and every other team in baseball when it comes to developing prospects. This is exactly how we said it would happen; they'd keep him at his natural position they thought he fit best and move him only when they thought he was ready/near ready and a positional change made sense at that point. That's exactly how it's happened in the past, it's how other teams do it, and it's how it happened again.

Ok, I suppose I understand....perhaps I was just expecting it and was let down. #releaseMoncada

I honestly don't understand why they couldn't just bring him up a day earlier, one freaking day. If he smashes, which is a decent possibility then he makes this team so much better and more dynamic.

It's the stats plus the scouting, you can really see the difference in his swing from the right side of the plate. The consensus is from those who have been scouting him is that he needs work against LHP and he would really struggle at the MLB level. Now, long term this is nothing to worry about, it's not like he's OPS in the .500 over there and he's very age advanced. I'd look at it more as him being way ahead of the curve from left side than him being behind from the right side.

at the end of the day, JBJ has had what amounts to a bad month. I'm not worried, players are streaky....with his defense people just wanted him to be a non black hole at the plate. Everything above that is just an awesome bonus.

Moncada could come up right now and probably hit RHP from the left side of the plate well, he's close to ready. However, he'd be a black hole from the right side as he obviously needs more work over there. He may or may not see time in September, but I think some time in the AFL is possible as well to give him more reps at 3B.