Hugh2

I don’t care how highly someone is ranked, I don’t think any team should ever be put together with prospects below AA in mind. You can trade guys, and guys can switch positions. I’d be more than ok with either a Bogaerts resign or a Correa/Story upgrade.

Prepare to be surprised. I suppose we should be prepared for another injury as well.

Turner and Bogaerts likely get very similar contracts. They've been almost identical over the years, with Bogaerts having slightly better plate discipline and Turner having better speed. This year Turn has more power, but I don't think Bogeys power outage lasts, until recently Turner had better defense as well but I'd say the last two years they've been identical there as well.

Age is such a huge factor, you look at what Devers did as you've just stated and it's not insanely huge offensive output, but it was so age advanced. If Devers played ever level at an average age, he likely would put up a 1.00 ops every year.

Interestingly enough, both players received 1.5 million dollar signing bonuses. Obviously Bleis has a long way to go with a wide range of outcomes, but if he hits all his marks, and I'm not saying it's highly probable, he could be better than Devers. Sometimes guys fall short of their ceilings, actually most of the time they do, but often they still become very good players. I remember Bogey had a ceiling of being a perennial MVP candidate, he's not exactly that good.....but he's pretty damn good. I have hopes that Bleis is going to be a really good MLB player. If only he was born a few years sooner and we could actually be talking about him as an option out in CF next year.

I wouldn't hate him as a platoon out there if they're making ADDITIONAL outfield upgrades.

I would like to think we can do a lot better than Pham

I'm not overly concerned with Bogaerts power outage this year which is probably given Turner that very small edge via ZIPs, Id still take Bogaerts over Turner long term, also when you consider that I think Bogaerts could be had for less.

Turners value is highly tied into his speed, or at least much more than Bogaerts. As they're both roughly the same age, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Turner will decline faster than Bogaerts. Id' place my betts on Bogaerts being a better hitter in his 30's than Turner. Boagerts has also arguably been as good as Turner defensively this year, maybe even better. I also think it's HIGHLY probable that Turner isn't leaving LA, I don't think LA lets him walk and I doubt he comes here over there unless we offer much more, that ton of money coming off the books goes right back on plus another 10-15 million per year when you sign Turner. Also Bogaerts averages 3.87 OWar per year vs. Turner 3.45. Not much of a difference, but I think the argument could be made that Bogaerts is slightly better offensively, proven vs. AL. East pitching, and has a profile that I believe ages better. I'd take Bogaerts over Turner, and I think he will bet a little cheaper too.

Ok, but for the record I don't think I'm the only one who has said Whitlock has the best stuff of all those guys, although I think an argument could be made for Bello in terms of pure stuff. Whitlock hasn't proven himself as a starter because he hasn't really been used as a starter, but for what information we have.....he's been better than those other guys. As a starter ERA WHIP Whitlock 4.15 1.25 Crawford 3.70 1.09 Wink 4.69 1.49 Bello 8.47 2.29 You can say Crawford has proved himself more in short sample size, also Whitlcik beats out everyone else in peripherals as well H9/BB9/K9 Whitlock, also performed much better in the MiLB than those guys. ERA/WHIP/H9/BB9/K9 Whitlock 2.45/1.175/8.0/2.5/8.8 Crawford 3.73/1.28/8.5/3.1/10.6 Wink 3.89/1.245/8.5/2.7/8.2 Bello 3.92/1.177/7.9/2.7/10.9 From a pure statistical point of View Whitlock beats everyone out except Crawford at the MLB level and Bello at the minor league level, GW has shown a lower era and slightly better control but Bello has had more swing and miss stuff. Body types, durability, developing 3rd/4th pitches and how that can change stats from milb to MLB are all things to consider to. I think a very strong argument should be made for Whitlock being in the rotation. I think the Sox believe so too, which is why they are using him the way they are. Another thing worth stating too is it shouldn't be Whitlock vs. anybody. If a guy is good enough to start, he should be starting....that's where he adds the most value. If you have too many starters, trade one for a proven reliever.

Soxprospects slapped an 8 grade on him. I don't remember the last time they ever put that on an international prospect. If it wasn't Moncada then I believe it was Bogaerts.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I believe Whitlocks stuff is much better, he came up as a starter and has a starter's makeup. He moved to the bullpen because he was recovering from an injury and the Sox were trying to get him work in while keeping him on the roster. I want to see Houck in the closers role, I also want to see more of Bello, this doesn't help us in the near term but I think if he fails as a starter he could excel in the back of a bullpen with his stuff.

But Whitlock is better than all those guys, so he should start. If Whitlock can start and handle the load, that's where he's going to be the most valuable to this team.

It's not crazy, but it's highly unlikley. If it happens we should all be very excited about him but the Red Sox shouldn't plan on him being ready until late 2024 or the beginning of 2025. Everyone....it's time to get on the Miguel Bleis train. He's a few years away, but he's the first true 5 tool ceiling prospect the Sox have had in a long time. If everything breaks right for this kid he's going to be the next international stud.

Realistically if Pham had started the season in Boston and had the stat line he does now, Likely Duran is likely getting a lot more at bats in AAA. I would imagine a better stat line and a fan base demanding his promotion to start in the outfield. I don't think your argument is wrong, but I don't think Pham is the guy to say we should have started the season with now that we know in hindsight he's marginally better than what else we put out there this year. The outfield needed a much bigger upgrade than that.

The Sox specifically plan to not throw Whitlock every day and give him rest. I know originally it was because they were not trying to load up his arm after surgery and had long-term ambitions of stretching him out as a starter. It seems to me, that they should be able to take the training wheels off and go one way or the other by now, but I think they still have ambitions for him to be a part of the rotation in 2023.

I think that’s what they do, not the worse way to start off the season. But by the time Casas comes to town it seems like a pretty big waste to hold two roster spots open for DHs who can only really play 1B and barely hit. I think the start off the year this way but by mid season next year one of those three are gone.

JDM has been solid, it’s probably time to move on. Would love to see the Sox add a premium bat this off-season (amongst other needs)

For argumentative purposes let’s say extending Bogey costs 30 million per annum. That’s only an additional $10 million per year. Given the space the Sox have, that’s not a huge obstacle to making other moves to upgrade the team in 2023. No reason we can’t extend Bogey and upgrade at catcher/OF/pitcher as well. If they need to stay under the cap one of those positions can be filled with a premium player via the trade market. If the Sox are willing to go over the cap for a few years and make a run, there’s no reason they can’t go up against the next threshold. This means that after extending Bogaerts the Sox have an additional 60-100 million to spend depending on how frugal they want to be. Using the past 20 years as precedent, it seems their philosophy on being frugal is ever changing. I won’t be surprised either way. But they could be a powerhouse next year if they spend the money.

I would say not improving the outfield is another, but the JBJ trade still covers that. Regardless, this team would still be without a centerfielder right now

Agreed, wanting to go for it when if the team is crappy is just dumb. Complaining about the team overall is well within their rights. I think the bashers don’t give enough credit to how much injuries derailed this team. Still, they do have a few good points. The JBJ trade is a real head scratcher. They did not do enough to strengthen the pitching. The last one is debatable because some of the pitching moves Bloom made actually looked pretty good until the injuries started piling up. For a man dead set on building organizational depth, we seem to have lacked it where we needed it the most.

I don’t think they have to extend Devers, especially if they aren’t confident, mine as well have him at a lower AAV next year. You can always slide Bogaerts to 3Rd and Story to SS, Mayer may be ready by 2024 as well. I’m not as sentimental as most fans when it comes to players, and I’m all for trading guys away for future value. But I think there’s also value in continuity and the Sox have had almost NONE of that for a decade. Last homegrown talent the Sox signed to a long term contract that was a star was Pedroia. I think they can change that with Bogaerts and it sends a message to the team as well.

To build upon my last post, this entails actually upgrades. No downgrades, avoid platoons if possible, no backups starting, You can throw out a couple big contracts this off-season and you can also trade for a TOTRS. You will have to give up talent, but this is the game you play. There’s a pretty intriguing free agent class coming up, I’m not sure what the trade market looks like for pitchers. Perhaps free agency is the way to go there as well.

We warned people about the cliff year ago, and they did not listen. This is the result. Bloom took over a Sox farm system that was the worse it had been in years and an inflated unproductive payroll. He’s spent the last several years turning that around. Obviously some posters don’t believe in that philosophy and think we should be the LA Dodgers, perhaps they’re right, but eventually they’re right. Eventually you have to cash in. One could argue that healthy this is a good team, and with a farm system built back up this off-season is the one to go for it.

Call me naive but I’m still giving him a chance, I will however come over to the dark side if he doesn’t make some big moves this off-season. I hope you guys have cookies over there.