Hugh2

I get what you're saying, I don't want to see Kike play SS ever again, maybe like 5 times a year in a utility role and with the way Duran has developed I don't want him starting in CF either. I think his offense would tick up in a utility role. Some guys are just made for that role and perform better there.

.000 BA against LHP, yeah, I'd let Kike play 2nd vs. LHP.

Spend like the Mets??? maybe more like NYY/LAD. But the caveat is to spend when you're good........they have not been good.

haaaaaave you seen Valdez hit vs. LHP? I'd take Kike over him any day. His defense is much better at 2nd than it is over at SS too.

Casas has been playing better though, and I'd hope he continues to get better as the season goes on. I think DUval/Kike can spell Duran/Valdez. Wouldn't mind the occasional Casas on the bench Turner to 1B either. But I want Casas getting at bats.

They should have just got under at the deadline, would make for a much better draft this year too. Especially if the plan is to supplement future teams.

I would love me some Yamamoto, f*** it, add Ohtani in too. Henry can corner the Japanese market. I know I know....not happening.

I'd have Kike play 2nd vs. LHP, and otherwise be the utility guy. He can spell Duran in CF and give him days off. I think he might even hit a little better in that role too. Utility players just play better in the utility role. I think he could be worth his money if the Sox played him right. To be fair....injuries prevented that.

Could they of? I think this team has proven to not spend money wisely....at least over the last several years. Although, some of those bullpen signings and Yoshida are looking good. But seeing how they're far under the cap....it's not like Kike stopped them from signing anyone else.

If this is a viable solution, then it makes all the sense in the world to just.... START REYES at SS. Not sure what Cora is thinking, he just likes Kike.

wouldn't mind him taking 2nd base starts when it's a LHP. and then be utility.

I'll take the 2024 on the above.

Well, they literally were just over the cap last year so it's not like they've been sitting under the cap. I don't think they're avoiding penalties, they're just avoiding year 2 and year 3 penalties when they can. Year 2 might be easier to stomach when the onfield product is good but if the onfield product sucks it doesn't make sense to just handcuff yourself even more to make the decisions to turn the team around. Like I said before, I'll be concerned if they stay under next year too. You should reasonably expect more production from a Bello/Whitlock/Casas/Yoshida/Duran/Devers core next year, and if Sale looks like a healthy pitcher again and the likes of Mayer/Rafaela/Yorke knocking on the door it makes more sense to start that 3 year clock next year. Lets say the Sox need to go out and get the best pitcher on the market (for argument's sake, some will say they will never do that). What did that look like this year? Verlander or DeGrome? we are likely still in last place. Next year it's signing Ohtani. FOr arguments, sake lets say that's realistic. What team is better? 2023 with DeGrome???? or 2024 (what we can reasonably project with these guys) plus Ohtani? not saying these are the moves, but I am saying that timing maters. This last years FA class wasn't very great. With the exception of short stops.

Still harsher penalties in year two, and how worth it is it if you're not that good. Also, they could be setting themselves up to go over next year. Better free agency class, and you can reasonably project the big league club to be in a better place as well. You want to time going over if you're going to stay over for 3 years, and starting that clock on a s***** team makes no sense.

The closest thing this defense has to a silver bullet is Story coming back healthy this year and playing plus defense. Is this possible? absolutely, he's been a plus hitter and a plus defender most of his career. How likely is this? I have no idea. But he makes your defense better, he puts Kike back to the super utility role where he is much better on defense in CF/2nd and you add a RH bat to your lineup. Shoring up the defense also helps the pitching and your lineup is more balanced.

One year isn't a trend, They're resetting. I'll be concerned if they're 15th in payroll next year. Also, I don't find that particularly peculiar. I don't think someone sits around a board room and says OMG were $16 million under how do we spend 15 million more? Also, if they signed Verlander over Kluber they'd be sitting over and somewhere around 6th-8th in payroll. How much better would they be? Without a doubt they would be better but how many more wins? 1 maybe. Verlander is better than Kluber but he's been a shadow of his former self to date as well. I don't think you should spend the money just for the sake of spending money. I have a lot of issues with how the Sox have spent their money the last several years but I have no problem with them sitting further under than they're used to because they didn't deem any FA out there worth it.

since 2018 2019 Nationals win world series. Sox outspend them by $86 million 2020 Dodgers win world series. They outspent the Sox, who had the FOURTH highest payroll in baseball 2021 Braves win world series. SOx outspent them by $35 million and were SIXTH overall in payroll. 2022 Astros win world series. Sox outspent them by $28 million and again were WITH overall in payroll. I say this over and over and over and over again and I will continue to beat this drum. The Sox problem is NOT payroll, it's not and never has been. They pay, they've been paying and they will pay into the foreseeable future. How well they have spent that money, and who they have chosen to pay are easily up for debate, but spending money IS NOT their problem.

Absolutely, the defense is a problem. As a matter of fact, it might be their #1 problem, at the very least it's competing with the pitching. Solving the defense makes the pitching better too, but that's hard to do mid season.

That's a role that needs to go away now that bullpens are being used more. The mop-up guy isn't the 13th guy in your pen you throw out to save the bullpen anymore. You need guys who can go 2-3 innings a game more often now and having a guy who can come in and take you from the 4th to the 7th or 8th is huge. If we had that we would have preserved the lead last night. If we had that we would have HELD Cincinnati and fought back for a win the night prior. To me, Mop-up guy was the multi-inning arm of the past who was an afterthought in a bullpen, now they have a lot more value to teams in an age where starters are increasingly going lesser into games.

I actually don't hate putting one of Whitlock or Houck back out there, but gambling on their youth and the possibility of taking a step forward in the starting role is very enticing. This dilemma is negated if Pivetta/Kluber actually looks good out of the pen. I'd settle for one of them looking good.

Starting pitchers are more valuable than relievers. But the gap has shrunk substantially over the decades. Here's a good read. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-shrinking-starting-pitcher-workload-prospect-edition/

Oh absolutely, but the Sox are not at the bottom of the league in IP for starters, they're more middle of the pack.

News Flash....Young pitcher working on his command.

I made a bold and stupid comment on the gameday thread about 5 innings pitched being a "quality start" which by definition it is not. My line of thought yesterday was how the game of baseball has really changed over even just the past 10 years. Relievers are going longer and Starters are more and more throwing fewer innings. It's actually amazing to think how much more starters make than relievers in free agency given this closing gap (market inefficiency???). My point was, in today's game, I don't think the Sox starters only going 5 innings or so is what is hurting this team. As a matter of fact, the best team in all of baseball with one of the better pitching staffs the Tampa Bay Rays does not do any better. Their starting pitchers only average 4.65 innings per game, and the Boston staff is averaging just over 5.05 innings pitched. For some perspective, I decided to look at a few other teams with great pitching staff as well. Houston 5.5 IP per game Minn. 5.6 IP per game Texas 5.75 IP per game ATL 5.25 IP per game TB 4.65 IP Per game Boston 5.05 IP Per game I figured it fair to look up some of the other awful pitching staffs as well. Oak 4.70 IP per game COL 4.65 IP per game Cinn 4.84 IP per game Sox seem to be middle of the pack, but there is some relationship (which is obviously predictable here) that teams with better-starting rotations will have starters that throw more innings. What I want to know is, how much of that benefits the team in today's game, or how much of that is just a function of how well the rotation performs? probably a bit of both. But despite that relationship, you see teams like Tampa Bay that have starters who do not go many innings but they still have great pitching year in and year out. So how strong is it?. The Sox seem to average between 1/3 and 2/3 of an inning less per game than the best pitching staffs in all of baseball. Is needing those extra 1 - 2 outs a game the difference between one of the best pitching staffs and one of the worse? I think it might just all come down to the fact that the starting pitching overall has not been good. They've shown glimmers of hope, but they have yet to hit the ground with all cylinders firing at once. It will be interesting to see how guys like Kluber and Pivetta do in the bullpen because the Sox need guys in there that can give you multiple-inning relief outings. That guy has so much more value in today's game. Earlier in the year I would have figured those guys to have been some combination of Houck/Whitlock/Paxton/Crawford but now you have to take Houck/Whitlock out of the left side of the equation and add in Pivetta/Kluber/Wink to the right side. Sox are obviously hoarding depth at the MLB level because they don't have a lot of pitching depth in the minors, not at the AAA level at least. The point is, they can't wait too long on guys like Kluber and Pivetta out of the pen, especially if you're going to need your pen 3 1/3 to 4 innings most nights. The Tampas model works because they have that depth at the MLB level year after year and they perform.

By definition of a quality start you are correct here. Not sure what I was thinking yesterday.