S5Dewey

That's a good, well researched post in spite of the fact that I slashed the bejeezus out of it to salvage the point I want to make. I know I expressed my opinion on this early in the year but I still think that we minimize the value of "1 or 2 games". 1 or 2 games can (and probably will for some team) be the difference between making the playoffs and playing golf in October. That's why I like to stress the importance of playing smart baseball. If dumb baseball only cost us two games this year I'd like to have those two games back right now! At this typing those two games are the difference between a 3 1/2 game lead and a 4 1/2 game lead over the Y's.

I don't see this as being a debate with any clear resolution to it - in spite of the fact that I've been involved in it. We truly don't know what effect having Beni on 1st with the chance of stealing 2B would have on CC's pitch selection. Maybe he would have hung a curve and a 3-run homer would have resulted. We don't know. OTOH, Max has a point to when he says that CC was dealing like he always does against the Sox. We just don't know what would have happened. Generally speaking, and this is just IMO, under the circumstances I'd rather have had sure runners on 1st & 3rd with nobody out than risk having Beni thrown out trying to advance a base on what was going to be a close play, risking 'losing' 1/3 of an inning + a baserunner. But again, that's just IMO.

Each of those mistakes cost the team 1/3 of an inning. There is no way this ^^ can possibly be known without the knowledge of what would have happened in that 'extra' 1/3 of the inning had the baserunning blunder not happened.

I'b been saying since before Price went down that the Sox having the opportunity to pick up Sale was a godsend in itself, and even moreso that they were able to land him. Now I'm saying the same thing about Fister. This team thought they were 'set' for pitching when the season started with both Price and the CY winner on board along with Kimbrel, but as it turns out where would we be without Sale and Fister??

There's been speculation from time to time that the Sox and/or NESN reads the forums and gleans ideas from them. That's not to say that they use what they see here but they may at least use the forums to get a different perspective and possibly use bits and pieces of what they see here. If the Sox start piggy-backing pitchers I'm going to begin to think that they're listening to us!

IMO the thing they're proving is that they have trouble hitting anything better than mediocre starting pitching, and they fatten up on the relievers. I used to 'nod off' early but now I make an effort to stay awake just so I can watch the comeback. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but when it does it's worth watching.

Are you saying that these things aren't statistically quantifiable but they exist???

I hear you. I do. But that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with you. :-) You're asking proof that probably doesn't exist because it doesn't show up in the box score, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. AFAIK we have no way of knowing what would have happened had these blunders not taken place. What I DO know is that each of them cost the Sox 1/3 of an inning so it's probably safe to assume that somewhere along the line they cost a game ... or six. I just don't think the exact number of losses or the games in which they happened can be identified. Re Beni and the play at 2b now: The fact that he was safe doesn't make it a smart play. Under the circumstances the team was going to either have runners on 1st & 3rd and no outs or a runner on 3rd with one out. That's what some of us would call "running out of an inning". Those options + the fact that the play was so close at 2B that it required a review made it... sorry... but a stupid chance. Sometimes a player does something stupid and it works out just like sometimes Farrell pulls what most of us think is a boneheaded play and the team wins anyway.

I'm not sure I'd do that. Our minor league pitching is quite shallow. I'd been preaching about Beni + Xander + ? for Stanton but that was in the hope that we could hold onto Betts into the future. This turn of events makes Mookie a little more expendable. Of course, that's the same reason the Marlins may not want him!

Cool! Scoop 'em up! I've always wanted one of those!! What's the going price, considering they've been worn by Yankees fans?

I dunnno... Maybe I come from the poor side of the tracks but I can't see turning down a guaranteed $100M to play baseball for 5 years. After that he could either retire or sign another contract for $20M/year - to play baseball.

Thanks, but in fairness a700's commitment is much bigger than mine because mine are only Spring Training tickets (unless you count the commitment in getting to Ft. Myers!). If I lived closer to Boston I'd like very much to get a ticket package like a700's but living 250 miles from Fenway makes it... shall we say... problematic. I like putting faces together with screen names so I'm going to try again next year to set up a TalkSox day @ Hadlock field to see the Sea Dogs. I've met Southpaw, and a700 & I got together at Ft. M last year and both were great experiences. As an aside, I also met Pumpsie Green and he's a great guy too in person. Stay tuned for Spring Training ticket availability. I expect to have some extras this year too.

I guess that makes it all but official. We can kiss that guy goodbye a soon as he enters free agency.

The lack of comparison isn't in the action itself - they're both dirty. The lack of comparison is in the penalty for it. When it happens on the field you get 3 days when you're not allowed to play baseball. On the street you may get 30 days in jail. I'm not suggesting jail time for what happens on a baseball field but I do think that not being allowed to play baseball for three days is a small penalty for endangering the future of a player.

I don't see how this can possibly end well for John Farrell now. The Sox almost have to fire someone to make their statement that they don't condone cheating, and Farrell is the logical one. As has been said, he either knew about it - in which case he has to be fired - or he didn't know about it - in which case he has to be fired for not knowing what's going on. Unfortunately we don't still have Lovello sitting in the wings waiting, so the question now is who's going to be his successor? We may not have liked what Farrell did every day but to give the devil his due, he's got this team to a 3 1/2 game lead in the ALE.

I was torn. I wanted the game to go another 1/2 hour, but at the same time I didn't want to risk losing!! LOL

The Sox won the WS in 2004 on October 27 @ ~11:40pm & my birthday is on the 28th. I'm all for counting Manny's as a birthday win if we can do the same for mine.

Good point. Maybe Torre's motivation isn't completely pro-Yankee. He's just anti-Red Sox.

Probably so. Since these guys aren't Yankee players they'll get penalized to the fullest extent of the discretion of Torre. If your estimate is right then sucker punching someone (twice) is 1/3 as egregious as stealing signs electronically. Never mind that what Sanchez did is a crime punishable by jail time if it happens anyplace other than on a baseball field.

IMO something that often gets overlooked is the contribution of our relievers in these long games. We somewhat expect to be able to get one good inning out of each of them but when we look at what they've done in retrospect and in the aggregate they've done a great job. And BTW, I don't think I've seen Carson Smith pitch before. That guy is freakin' NASTY!!! He came in for his first appearance after rehab, threw one pitch to Donaldson, Donaldson got ejected (LOL), and then proceeded to have his way with the Jays. Pretty impressive.

How's that work going this morning, BTW? LOL

If Torre is consistent with the way he hands out suspensions Farrell will get one game, and Holt, Young, and Pedrioa will get two innings each, staggered so they don't affect the team.

Ahem... check the game thread. I was there to the end, but OMG I'm tired this morning. And I notice that the board is somewhat quiet this morning, too. LOL I got my second wind when I got the score of the Yankees/Baltmore game. I'm still having trouble believing that game had a 2 1/2 hour weather delay and it still got over before the Sox game!

"I'm tired. I been walkin' all day."

Good night, all you tough souls!!