moonslav59

We all agree on this. I and others don't agree it is "his legacy." His legacy to me was indecision and neglecting the rotation- not Betts. This my opinion not a fact. Same as your legacy opinion.

You spoke of "legacy" which is beyond the fact that Bloom pulled the trigger that DD nearly did, earlier. The legacy part is opinion- not fact.

My comment was directed to what I clipped from your statement. That will be Bloom's legacy and it will live in infamy in Red Sox history. The part I did not clip was factual.

Not a bad theory.

There is no way anyone can even remember how many beers they drank by 73. Maybe the stewardess counted.

I didn't say I agreed with soxprospects, and that's why I mentioned the source, when I made the statement. I'm fine with not counting him, and certainly Schreiber should not have been on my list.

I was just reporting that soxprospects counted Bernardino as a prospect.

If she's anything like MVP, you should expect to be paid.

This is true, but the 3 year gap is significant, in terms of the budget and roster at each time. The Betts era had several players making $17+M or $20+M. Fan expectations were different, too.

It was reported that DD was looking to trade him in July of 2019, but the Sox started playing better, so they decided not to "sell." Had they lost that 8 game streak in the middle of July instead of right at the end and into AUG, he might have been traded by DD. Who knows what the return would have been. I never heard even any rumors of the return.

You have to think, had they countered that offer with $220/8 or $240/9, he might still be here.

Neither was Whitlock, but he and Bernardino were technically prospects when we got them, according to SP's.

It's hard to know anything for sure, and I don't disagree with your opinion. He did say he wanted to test free agency, so there is some support to those who feel like he wouldn't have signed, unless blown away. The fact that he signed with LAD during COVID casts a shadow on that opinion, but maybe the circumstances of COVID played a had in his changing his mind. Once the Sox did not counter, it was a cluster of a done deal: he was going to be traded.

I actually said "it looks like..." not the he "never would." You are right. We didn't even bother to counter with $310 or $320. A $325M/11 offer seemed like a no brainer. I'm not excusing JH or DD or Bloom for not even trying. If it was all JH who drew the line in the sand at $300M, it's 100% on him.

That's on Bloom. We might get some surprises like Crawford was from... Sandlin Fitts Guerrero Wikelman & Perales Mongero & Dobbins Maybe a sleeper. We can't keep counting on finding guys like Wink, Whitlock, Schreiber, Slaten and Bernardino.

I was thinking that, before the loss, even.

Yes, agreed, and that made sense then and in hindsight, but it looked like Betts was not going to sign for what he ended up taking with LAD. Would it have taken $400M/13? If so, we'd need to do away with more than just Sale, or end up with 10-12 min wage slots on the 26, and little farm help to fill those holes.

I totally agree. I was 100% behind extending or re-signing Betts at whatever it took. I do think keepin him would have forced other departures of popular and skilled players, and JH would still have become tight-fisted. The 2019 team was getting more and more expensive, and it was bound to come to a head. The extended future did not look good, under the assumption that JH was not going to spend to near the 2019 level for at least the next 5 years. We cam pretty close in 2022, and with inflation figured in, probably about even with 2019 in 2022. The 2020-2021 team had a GM that was handcuffed. It actually began in 2019, when Kimbrel and Kelly were not re-signed or replaced anywhere near in-kind. We almost traded betts in the summer of 2019, so the writing was clearly written on the wall. The long term outlook was pretty bleak, as our farm looked pretty weak. My point was and still is, that with the budget and farm considered appropriately, our longer term outlook looks better now, than in 2019. This is not hindsight, either. Many saw the writing on the wall, back then, and the word written in bold print started with a "C." That pretty much came true, in large part due to JH's budget slashing and no significant farm input for about 5 years (summer 2017-2022 or 2023.) Now, we have a pretty nice young core of everyday players filling every position and 3 highly regarded prospect near ML readiness. Even our pitching staff looks brighter now, than just a few short months ago, despite the farm still looking very weak in this area. We have several young or younger pitchers with 3+ years of control. Age 25 Bello 26 Wink, Slaten, Campbell 27 28 Houck, Crawford, Whitlock 29 Weissert, Kelly The staff still has some major holes, question marks and injury concerns, but it looks brighter- longer term than the staff back in 2020-2023, with expiring contracts, rising budget costs and major injury issues with too many pitchers. I'm not saying everything looks rosy. Teams like ATL, BAL and a few others have better and more younger proven stars than we do. It's all relative, and IMO, our future looks brighter now than it has in 5 years. The present does not.

Woo OPS Leaders(80+ ABs, unless noted) 1.145 EValdez (30 ABs) 1.092 Kavadas 1.078 Romy (39) 1.052 Ref (12 in rehab) .844 Grissom (30 in rehab) .818 Westbrook .803 Dalbec (28) .778 Guthrie (48) .772 Meidroth .695 Hickey Portland (70+ ABs) 1.106 Lugo .912 Gasper .848 Paulino .822 Mayer .792 Teel .750 Jordan .749 Yorke .699 Anthony GRE .955 K Campbell .851 T Miller .789 B Gonz .754 Castro ERA Leaders Woo (15+ IP) 2.40 Guerrero 3.72 Fitts 3.94 Alexander POR 1.40 Olivarez 2.42 Dobbins 2.50 Penrod 2.76 Webb 3.66 I Coffey 4.00 Bastardo GRE 3.00 Mullins 3.71 Perales

Here are our L-R splits... LHB .751 v RHPs .680 v LHPs The split with RHBs is more pronounced: .690 v RHPs .725 v LHPs The biggy is this: games when a RHP starts: .757 games when a LHP starts: .618

Since the 2020 budget is hard to pick apart, due to COVID, lets just skip over that impossible situation and go to 2021. The season opening budget, according to cots was $180M, which was $56M less than the 2019 budget that included letting Kimbrel and Kelly go. Let's assume we kept Betts and Price, and we can look at dumping 1/2 Price later. Here would be the 2021 team and budget, after taking away anyone signed after 2019 (AAV numbers): 31.0 Price 30.4 Betts (These two would have taken up over 1/3 of the $180M budget, alone.) 25.6 Sale (extended before 2020) 22.0 JD (signed in 2018) 20.0 Bogey (extended before 2020) 17.0 Eovaldi (re-signed before 2019) $136M for just 6 players. That leaves $44M for the remaining 34 players on the 40. 8.3 ERod (Arb was optional, but obvious) 4.6 Devers (Arb was mandatory) 4.5 Vaz (signed before 2019) 4.5 Barnes (Arb was pretty obviously accepted) This looks like a pretty automatic $22M, which brings us to $158M for 10 players. Add another $2M for the 14 players on the 40, who are in the minors, and we are at $160M. That leaves $20M to fill the other $16 open slots on the 26. Good luck building a winning team around Betts in 2021. I assume no signings after 2020, and no bringing JBJ back. I assume we still trade Beni to save $3M. I assume we still make the Pivetta trade. Assume we still get to pick Whitlock. (I'm cherry-picking only the good moves from post 2019 and pre 2021) 1.6 Plawecki (Could have gone min wage, here) 1.3 Brasier (Could have been traded or DFA'd) Min wage: 1. Pivetta (SP) 2. Arroyo (FT 2B) 3. Josh Taylor (RP) 4. Dalbec (1B) 5. Whitlock (RP) 6. DHern (RP) 7. P Valdez (RP) 8. Chavis (UT) 9. Cordero (LF) 10. Marcus Wilson (CF) The team: SP1 Nate SP2 Sale SP3 ERod SP4 Price SP5 Pivetta RP1 Barnes RP2-8 Taylor, DHern, Valdez, Brasier or Min wage, Min wage, Min wage, Min wage, Min wage C Vaz + min wage C 1B Dalbec 2B Arroyo SS Bogey 3B Devers LF Cordero CF M Wilson RF Betts DH JD Now, let's assume we could trade Price +$16M per year for a prospect (big what if), we'd have had $15M to spend on a few slots: $7M CF Kike? $5M SP Perez? $3M LF Renfroe? This team might be better than the 2021 Red Sox were, but there are still some major problems. How would our extended future look after this team's 2021 season?

LOL, always a joy reading your posts.

Speaking of the surging Kavadas, who batted him 7th, tonight. He doubled (1-4 w 3 Ks) They are losing 6-4 in the 9th. POR lost 5-3, but it looks like Mayer is heating up. He homered, last night and went 3-4 with 3 doubles and a BB. Too bad Anthony was 0-5 in front of him. Teel was 2-4 behind him w a BB. Yorke went 2-3 w a BB. Lugo is cooling off (0-4). 1.106 Lugo .822 Mayer .792 Teel .750 Jordan .749 Yorke .699 Anthony GRE lost 4-2 KCampbell doubled and walked in 5 PAs. They are playing the second game, now. Perales 8 Ks in 4 IP (2ER) JH Garcia homered for SAL, and they are up 4-2 in the 7th. Mikey Romero went 3-5 for the FCL club (1.071)

Good thing for Kavadas, batters face RHPs about 65-70% of the time.

BS was called on my supposition that the budget would be the same. We can't keep Betts & Price and all the contract extensions that kicked in in 2020 and meet the budget, even if we signed zero FAs. We'd have to trade salary, somehow, someway. I'm not saying it's impossible, and I wish we could have found a way. It's easy to just say trade Price and half his money for something else. Look, in hindsight and say, trade Sale right after his extension kicked it. Saying the Sox are/were rich enough to spend more is something we have been saying for 5 years. That was not part of my point. Of course, that solves the problem, but my point was about how we keep Betts in 2020 and 2021 without trading someone like Sale, Bogey, JD plus somehow finding a taker for 1/2 Price without giving up Betts. Do we trade Bogey & 1/2 Price? Sale & 1/2 Price (Yes, in hindsight) JD and 1/2 Price. (Oh, and I forgot about the Nate re-signing. Do we trade him and 1/2 Price to meet Bett's contract cost?) We also never replaced Porcello and several others that bolted, along the way.