moonslav59

I don't see concern as suffering. Concern about the future kept us from trading Betts & Bogey for Hamels. That foresight and concern for the future created this current "Zen moment" or "3-5 year window".

Yes, that was overly dramatic, I agree, but if we truly believe the weakness is still great and is still here now, it's not an outlandish idea, unless we plan on drafting and then trading them away like Espi and Kopech, before they fail due to poor development in our farm system. I've heard some say that if Espi or Kopech thrive, we can't assume they would have here- already hedging the post-mortem debate on how these deals worked out 8 years down the road.

We will begin to see the affects of not having as many low-cost players in 2-3 years, but I agree, we should be highly competitive for 4 maybe 5 more years. It could last longer with some shrewd moves, extensions and draft/IFA picks. I'm not projection doomsday in 5-6 years. The way the rules have changed, it's going to be much harder for us to get guys like Moncada, Bogey, Devers, Espinoza, Raudes and Margot through international signings. By winning, we won't be getting top 10 draft picks like Kopech and Groome anymore. By facing heavier fines and even other strong penalties by going over the luxury limit or significantly over the limit, we may not be able to "buy our way" out of a mess, if we need to. With hefty arb raises and extensions on the near horizon, our ffront office and scouts may need to be near flawless to keep us highly competitive beyond 4 or 5 years. An argument could be made and supported that "now was the time" to hold onto at least the far-away prospects to offset the reality of just how tough it will be to acquire top young talent while winning and spending so much. Again, I'm fine with where we are, but I know we sacrificed a significant part of our extended future for this 3-4 or maybe 5 year window. I'm glad we didn't take this road from 2011-2015, or maybe we wouldn't have Betts, Bogey, JBJ and others right now.

The list speaks for itself. We traded away a massive amount of potential. 11 players, who at some point, reached the top 13 in the rankings.

I agreed that it "was the right time", but my position is that we didn't have to be so extreme or drastic about it. We probably could have traded some prospects earlier than we did (the "Papi window" has come and gone), but finishing in last place did help us get Kopech & Groome.

Well said. I could be wrong, but I have gotten a very distinct impression that some posters do not feel much concern about the difficulties that are ahead of us. I get that some personalities are more inclined to think about the here and now than the future. and some are somewhere in between, but the day will come when end up cutting a good talent loose based on the decisions we made this past year, or we'll have to settle on a lesser in house solution than we might have had otherwise, and that could be the difference between being highly competitive or not 4-8 years from now.

We've traded away 7 of out top 10 prospects in one year. (14 out of 21) That is dramatic and drastic. Just talking about concerns, we've been called whiners and implied doomsday apocalyptic naysayes. There can be a "middle ground" and I think that is what I had hoped for. I think Kimmi is pretty close to my position too. True, we could have traded Swihart, Devers and Groome too, so I guess you could call what we have done a "middle ground", but to me and others what we did was at least a little too far to one end of the spectrum. Personally, I'd take back the Pom and Kimbrel trades. With the money and some of prospects "saved" (I'd have traded Margot & Guerra) I would have acquired a not-so-glamorous closer and starter. I'd even feel much better without just the Pomeranz trade and maybe trying to sub Espi for Kopech in the Sale trade. I'm not upset with where we are now, but I'm not going to deny that our future will be impacted. Let's not deny that many posters said, "Don't worry; our farm can be rebuilt," or "We can spend more to fill future needs."

1. We have new people on the farm, so our lack of "developing pitchers" in the past is not a guarantee it will continue. 2. Maybe it was not lack of developing but instead poor scouting and draft picks. 3. If we suck so much with pitchers, should we never draft anymore pitchers? 4. Where's the guarantee that Kimbrel and Pomeranz reach their ceiling of expectations? Yes, I realize there's a much higher chance they do something good in the majoes with us that say, Espinoza or Kopech, but the same argument could have been made for trading Betts & Bogey for Cole Hamels. We had a "window" then too as Papi was nearing retirement. One could argue that window (2014-2016) was a better opportunity than this one. 5. I haven't seen one poster here who thinks we should not have made any prospect trades. It's not an absurd position to think that this is going too far: Sox prospects traded away in the past year (highest soxprospects.com): 1 Y Moncada 3 A Espinoza 3 M Margot 5 M Kopech 6 J Guerra 7 L Basabe 9 M Dubon 12 T Shaw (not a prospect when traded) 12 W Rijo 13 L Allen 13 P Light 18 L Basabe 20 C Asuaje 21 V Diaz 24 J Pennington 30 A Wilkerson 40 J Almonte I'm happy with our team right now. I would take back one or two moves, if we could, but overall, I'm happy. That being said, what we did was extreme. It has caused concern to me about our future ability to provide low cost players to our luxury tax budget. I want to keep as many of our young stars as possible, and having a steady influx of top young players is one reason this "3 year window" exists in the first place. I want more "windows" down the road too.

I don't understand how some posters can't at least just understand the concept that having less great prospects diminishes the chances that we will have enough low-cost quality players to off set the larger contracts down the road. Those of us with concerns understand the "win now" theory and argument. Also, there are many in the middle who feel some "win now" type deals were called for but maybe not so many or all. It's a valid position to hold.

Fact Denier.

Yeah, he did, but he can maybe make some adjustments. He's 21, but he's still raw. 16 HRs and 38 XBHs in just 334 ABs vs righties is something to write home about.

What's also very encouraging when looking at the AL WAR leaders on fangraphs is how many of our players placed in the top tier: 2) Betts 7.8 12) Pedey 5.2 16) JBJ 4.8 19) Bogey 4.7 (22) Ortiz 4.4) 34) Ramirez 2.6 4 in the top 20 and 5 in the top 35! Pitching: 1) Porcello 5.2 3) C Sale 5.2 7) Price 4.5 22) Wright 2.8 *31) Pomeranz 2.5 (half season) *NL ranking 3 of the top 7 and 5 of the top 30 or so in their league! That's 10 guys with a WAR over 2.5. (all top 70 batters+pitchers) in their league last year. 7 guys with a WAR over 4.5! Sox(7): Betts 7.8, Porcello 5.2, Sale 5.2, Pedroia 5.2, JBJ 4.8, Bogey 4.7, Price 4.5 Guardians (4): Lindor 6.3, Kluber 5.1, Kipnis 4.8, Ramirez 4.8 Cubs (3): Bryant 8.4, Rizzo 5.0, Hendricks 4.5 (Lester 4.3) Dodgers (3): Seager 7.5, Kershaw 6.5, Turner 5.8

I think there'll always be some hand wringing when 4 of the top 32 ranked prospects are traded away. Did I happen to say I'm so FREAKING HAPPY WE HAVE CHRIS SALE! CHRIS FREAKIN SALE!

Ockimey and Chatham could surprise. Both are scaled at 3-6 on soxprospects.com- the same as Dalbec. (Raudes is 2-5.)

Even though we are not deep after our top 3, we have Travis and non-prospect Swihart at ML ready status.

Baseball America's Top 100 is out... 1. Benintendi 2. Moncada 18. Devers 21. Espinoza 24. Margot 32. Kopech 43. Groome Wow! 5 Red Sox products in the top 24. That's 1 out of every 5! 7 in the top 43. That's just about 1/6th! The Yankees: 5. G Torres 39. C Frazier 45. B Rutherford 85. J Mateo 87. J Kaprielian 90. A Judge 91. J Sheffield The Cubs: 14: Eloy Jimenez 64. A Almonte 97. D Cease

Baseball America's Top 100 is out... 1. Benintendi 2. Moncada 18. Devers 21. Espinoza 24. Margot 32. Kopech 43. Groome Wow! 7 Red Sox products in the top 43. That's just about 1/6th!

I'm not sure any wants to...

Yeah, I didn't think he was the same person, but some qualities are very similar.

Quentin & Selsky- sounds like a lawyers' firm. Nothing more to ask for! We gotta be faves now!

For several of the last DFA's, I thought it should have been Brentz, but it's not like any of the other guys we cut went on to do anything useful, so I can see why people wonder why I keep suggesting he's the "next to go". This time, since he's out of options, I really think it is his time. I wish him well, but I just don't see it happening here.

I've always been against spending significant money trying to upgrade the middle or bottom of the rotation, so it really was nothing personal against Dempster. At least I never called him one of the worst pitchers in the league, like I did Masterson. I get why they signed Dempster, and I get what he brought to the clubhouse, but I was against the deal when it happened, and then his production on the field was much worse than his previous seasons before coming to Boston. I guess that soured me even more. It wasn't just Dempster and Masterson, it was Penny, Smoltz, Colon, Wade Miller, Paul Byrd, Jake Peavy, Erik Bedard and Aaron Cook. At least I've been consistent. I realize some of these guys were in season acquisitions needed to fill a gap during a playoff run. Sometimes, there wasn't many other options, so I couldn't and didn't blame the GM for getting some, but I just hate the idea of building a staff from anywhere other than the top (or at least a solid 3 type). I always viewed Brentz as Middy-light. I must have suggested hundreds of Middy trades--back when he had value. 25% K rate and unsustainable/diminishing power. I never rooted against Brentz or any Sox player, but I just never had any high hopes for the guy.

I made the mistake of engaging you with this nonsense. I won't make it again. If you're not up to the challenge of discussing or debating baseball with me, then you're not worth my time. Stick to baseball. Do you remember a poster on BDC who always used the word "specious"? Just got me thinking...

What has he done or showed to justify wanting him on the ML roster? He's out of options. He's not making the 25 man roster. Even if we have an OF injury, I'd rather bring up someone else.

It's not hate. He's just not good enough to play MLB.