moonslav59

Plus, with how well Wong is doing, the need is not really there. Also, why start his service time clock and lose a prime year (or two) of control?

They have been willing to spend, in the past, but they never seem to go really big on FA bats. Soto could be that guy, but the bidding will get silly big on him.

Reports said they were open to the idea, but their asking price must have been too high.

I feel the same. Maybe Bello is just going through some growing pains. I also think Criswell may be morphing into a decent 5/6 slot pitcher. The big if for 2025 is Giolito in the rotation and Hendriks (and Fulmer to a lesser extent) in the pen. We could be one major SP'er away from a top 8 rotation in MLB. We are currently 6th in fWAR rotations, but may end up 8th to 10th by season's end. Next year, Houck, Crawford and Bello should be able to go 175-190 IP. If Gio can give us 190 decent IP, we could be fine.

I can actually see this way of thinking as being justifiable, but with the way MLB is set up, right now, especially the AL, I think we are close enough to being a top AL contender, this year, than we have been since 2021. I do think trading Jansen, Pivetta and O'Neill could significantly improve our chances in 2025 and beyond, but I'm tired of the wait until next year mantra.

They have also been rumored to be listening for offers on some of their best SP'ers. I think we might match up with them, but more likely, this winter, not the deadline. Castillo ($21.6 AAV until 2027 w vesting option for '28. Gilbert (3 arbs left!) Kirby (4 arbs remaining!) Miller (pre-arb!!!) Woo (pre-arb, but not likely available) We could offer Anthony or Abreu + mid level prospects We could offer Mayer or Campbell plus others I'm not sure Abreu, Campbell and Fitts gets us one.

I think we will come to this point, but I suppose they may wait one more winter. We've had enormous success trading top prospects for controllable SP'ers- way better than the FA route. I am not expecting it to happen, but I think there is a very good chance it does- a much better chance than I have thought in the past 4-5 years.

I think Campbell passes Bleis in the EOY rankings. I like Cespedes better, too. I agree with MVP, far away prospects don't have the same appeal (and trade value) they used to have. I think Cespedes, Bleis, Arias and Zanetello are better held onto, as their upside potential is very high when compared to their trade value. I'm not sure the BTV $13M on Bleis is how other GMs see him. All it takes is one, though. Maybe the CWS are looking 3-4 years down the road and really likes Bleis.

I'd say Anthony and Mayer are about equal, and since our OF looks loaded, Anthony might be the guy we move (probably not at the deadline.)

Very well put. The same could be said about Lugo and Meidroth. This does not mean these guys won't every be good MLB players, but only that we cannot use their OPS, OBP and other numbers to predict MLB success. Plus, Lugo and Yorke have positional issues and defensive concerns. Meidroth's D, especially at 2B is kind of questionable, but he should be okay to decent.

19 and 21 are virtually tied. Catchers have more value, and every indication is that Teel will stick as a catcher. As MVP points out, Teel is ML ready, now (apparently.)

I had my doubts, too. It wasn't so much about the $7M/yr as it was about Cora's disgust over management's unwillingness to spend on improving the roster he had to use. He has voiced his displeasure and discomfort, several times over the last few years. I always thought JH & Co. wanted to keep Cora: it was more about Cora knowing many teams would want him and pay him to be "their guy."

We really need one or two of these guys like him to step it up, in a big way. Even if we trade for 2 RP'ers or 1 RP and 1 SP (Pivetta to the pen,) we'll still need some step-ups. Last 14 days OPS Against: 1.346 Bernardino 1.250 Horn 1.228 Jansen 1.101 Wink .864 Pivetta .863 Anderson .859 Crawford Our best in 2 weeks? .077 Booser .583 Kelly .704 Weissert (Yes, you heard right) .716 Houck .744 Criswell .769 Bello

You guys, as well as LAD, NYM and other big spenders, should have landed DD.

I really hope we don't squander a top 10 prospect(s) for a rental(s.) I'm okay with some lower prospects for 1 or 2 or 3, but not top ones. Getting a SP'er with 1.3 or more years of control will be more costly, especially since 20+ teams might be in the bidding, but we can afford to bite the bullet to et 1 or 2 like this (2.3+ years would be even better.) I am doubtful we go this route. Trading 5+ years of a top 10 prospect for even 2.3 years of a stud, shortens the "window" from 5 to 2.3, and I'm not sure the Sox top brass wants to do that, right now. They probably think waiting another year or two to do a deal or two like this, makes more sense. "Choosing a lane," and let's assume it is the buying one, does not mean we are going all in, or even significantly "in." To me, a big part of choosing the buyer lane is to identify where we have duplicated values and deciding who to keep and who to offer up in trade. We may prefer Anthony over Abreu, but a deal might come about, where the other GM insists on Anthony, and we end up sticking with Abreu (Ref/Campbell/Yorke/Lugo/Bleis...) as our 3rd and 4th OF'ers. We may decide to roll the dice with Story, once again and a 2B combination of DHam- Romy/Grissom/Campbell/Yorke/Meidroth...) and bite the bullet by trading away Mayer. We could keep Mayer and trade Campbell. We may think having Wong as out catcher for the "window" is enough, and decide to trade Teel. I doubt our farther away prospects like Bleis, Cespedes and the oft-injured Perales net us a big prize, so I'd hold onto them. Trading Fitts, Sandlin, Perales, E R-C or Dobbins, as part of a bigger package, should only be done, if we get a controllable pitcher in return. I get the sentiment that no team can ever have too much young talent, but the "wait till next year" refrain has already maxed out it's usage. To me, the time is now. What I think will happen is this: 1. We will not trade a top 9-10 prospect, this deadline. 2. We may trade a number of players like Meidroth, Yorke, Lugo, Paulino, Castro, Jordan, Wikelman, Hickey, Kavadas or even ML experienced guys like Valdez or Abreu (assuming we get a RHB for Wilyer) for 2-3 significant but not really good rentals. 3. We trade a top 3 prospect in a package for a TOTR SP"er, this coming winter.

Agreed, but one aspect cannot be overlooked: we are not the only playoff contender struggling, right now. somebody posted, recently, the Yanks have been one of the worst teams in MLB over the last 35-40 games. We could possible play .500 ball and pass them. I'm also not convinced 2-3 teams from the ALC make the dance. Most other teams have tough stretches coming up, too. NYY: has lost 4 of 5 (sound familiar?) and are 10-22 in the last 32 games. BAL: has lost 3 straight and 8 of 11 (10-13 in last 23) MIN: has lost 4 of 6 and 6 of 10 KCR: has being doing well, but has lost 2 straight, and before sweeping the CWS, lost 2 of 3 to BOS. No team wants to rely on other teams to lose, but we are not alone.

The NL is wide open, with just 2 teams out of it. The top 3 teams have 43 or fewer losses, but then the next 10 teams are between 46 and 55 losses. STL is the 3rd WC with 49 losses, and 7 teams are 6 or less losses away. It's very close between the 2WC, 3WC and 3 others: 48 losses NYM 49 STL 50 SDP 50 ARI 50 PIT 53 CIN 54 SFG 55 CHC & WSH WOW!

Amazing how bunched up the top 7-8 in the AL are. 7 teams have between 40 and 47 losses, and HOU leads the ALW and has 49 losses. A lot of teams still in this thing. SEA is still in the ALW race and the WC, too. TEX and TBR are long shots. We need a win streak,

Interesting ideas.

Let's go for it... Anthony, Bleis, Fitts and any 3 from Valdez, Lugo, Wikelman, Paulino, Castro and Jordan for Crochet (2 arbs), Fedde ($7.5M '25) & DeJong (Rental) 2024 (2025) SP: Houck, Crochet, Crawford, Fedde, Bello (Giolito) RP: Jansen (Hendriks), Slaten, Pivetta (Whitlock), Criswell, Bernardino, Kelly, Weissert (Fulmer) C Wong, McGuire (Teel) 1B Casas 2B DHam/Romy (Mayer, Story, Grissom, Campbell) SS DeJong, Romy/DHam/Rafaela (Mayer) 3B Devers LF Duran, Refsnyder (Campbell) CF Rafaela/Abreu RF O'Neill (Abreu) Refsnyder DH Yoshida, Refsnyder/Valdez (Lugo/Yorke) It would be a trade for 2024 and 2025. Crochet makes the window 2024 to 2026, and losing Anthony, Bleis and Fitts does not squash the longer term outlook from 2026>2028+.

Paxton is likely going to be better than Bello has been, but I hope we can do better. He has had a couple nice mini stretches, this year and a pretty long one, last year, so maybe... 2024: 4.37 FIP last 7 starts. 3 starts in a row: 1.00 ERA/3.08 FIP (June 11-24) 3 starts in a row 1.93 ERA/4.58 FIP (May 5-17) First 4 starts of 2024: 2.61 ERA, but 5.80 FIP 2023: First 13 starts: 3.34 ERA/3.58 FIP, including a 6 GS stretch of 1.75/2.31 (5/31- 6/30)

Yes, Sale did look good, last year, and the promise was better than other years. Had he been hurt or sucked, nobody would have been surprised, either. Yes, there were worries about Gio, but really not about his health or durability. Had Gio started 30 games at a 4.00 ERA and Sale 10 at a 3.25 ERA, I doubt anyone would be complaining. We got it wrong. That does not mean there was no logic behind the choices. Getting a couple guesses wrong does not make any GM an idiot. Of course the Grissom outlook is no guarantee, but our 2B issues have been horrific for so long, it nearly rivals our rotation woes. We took a stab at fixing it for 4-5 years. So far, the looks like a bad guess, too. When bad guesses become the norm, then maybe the GM can be blamed, but Brez was not the only guy to think Grissom had more promise than Valdez, Reyes, DHam and others, last winter. I think every single GM would have chosen Grissom over all the others we had. If he's an idiot for that, then something is wrong with the judging criteria. I'd say Brez guessed right on... Dumping Dugo in time Acquiring Slaten Trading two low hope relief pitchers for O'Neill. Signing Criswell at minimum wage with 4 arbs left. Getting Romy off waivers Maybe improving the pen with Booser (2024>>) and I Campbell, Weissert and Judice (2025>>>) Maybe improving the farm with Fitts & Sandlin Maybe improving our 2B position with Grissom from 2025-2028. Maybe improving on the 2025 pitching staff with Hendriks & Fulmer. We can choose to take out the magnifying glass on Sale, Gio and Grissom, but Brez has not swung and missed on every deal. Some or many of the other moves I mentioned might fail or turn out to be insignificant, but the Sale trade had some logic and reason behind it. It just did not work out. It happens. After watching this happen over and over with Bloom, I can see why this causes so much grief, and I'm not happy about it, either, but Brez is not an idiot over one trade.

How many times have we thought this, only to be surprised- to the good and bad?

No doubt. Never thinking of the future can bring that about for long periods.

That's a seperate issue.