moonslav59

Detroit worries me too, but there's room for both of us. Let's just win the division and solve this whole problem. Playing a WC game will mess up our rotation.

6 of their last 9 losses have been by 1 run. It's time to start winning these games. We're 16-19 overall in one run games.

The Astros-Guardians game is still going on, but here are the standings as of now: Toronto +1 on BOS BOS +1 on BAL & DET BAL & DET are tied for the last WC slot. HOU -2.5 NYY -3.5 KCR -4.0 SEA -5.0

UZR does use trained observers to calculate how many balls hit into a player's zone are fielded. They rank easy ones, hard ones and near impossible ones. It sounds a lot like the one you are pining for.

They've actually bashed some good pitchers too.

I mentioned this on another thread about how we seem to outscore our opponents in many series that we end up losing or splitting, but it never seems to go in reverse...ever. When is the last time we were outscored in a series but won or even tied the series? Let's look. Series in reverse order starting from yesterday: Outscored the A's 27-5 but only won 2 of 3. (lost 1 gm by 1 run) Outscored the Rays 20-14 & won 2 of 3 (lost 1 by 1 run) We were outscored 19-15 by KC and lost 2 of 3. Outscored the Rays 12-8 but split 2-2 (lost 2 by 1 run). Outscored the Tigers 21-18 but split 2-2 (lost 1 by 1 run). Outscored the O's and Guardians 16-6 and won all 3 games. Outscored AZ 31-9 and somehow won all three. Were outscored by the Yanks 16-11 and lost 2 of 3. Outscored the Dodgers 14-11 AND LOST 2-1! Were outscored 11-10 by Seattle and managed a split 2-2 (lost 1 by 1 and 1 by 2). Outscored the Angels 14-12 and just split 2-2 (lost 1 by 1 run). Were outscored by Detroit 17-13 and were swept (2 by 1 tun). Outscored the Twins 31-22 and split 2-2 (lost 1 by 1 and 1 by 2). Outscored the Giants 15-7 and swept them 2-0. Outscored the Yanks 11-8 and won 2 of 3. Outscored the Rays 14-6 and swept them 3-0. Outscored the Rangers 25-18 and won 2 of 3. Were outscored by the Angels 30-17 BUT WON 2 of 3 (lost 21-2). That was the last time. Other times we were outscored but split or won this year? None. So basically... We were outscored in a series but still won the series .one time. We were outscored by the opps one time and split. We outscored the opps and split 4 times. We outscored the opps and lost the series 1 time.

Huh?

The problem with signing Jansen or Chapman is that they'd want to be assured of being the closer. I'd be happy doing that, but Kimbrel wouldn't. He'd demand a trade the next day.

He could have gotten much more. There's no doubt.

.It was generally agreed that Pedey was underpaid, when he signed his long extension. $12.6M a year for a recent MVP at his age was clearly a "hometown discount". I'm not defending the Sox lowball offer, but in the context of Pedey's "discount", maybe the Sox thought they could hit lightening twice.

But wouldn't expect at least one instance of the reverse happening? Where we get outscored in a series but gut out a split or a win? And, the fact is, this is happening way too often to be attributed to some sort of fluke. The series I listed below are just about every series we didn't win. When you outscore your opponents in every series, you expect to win more than you lose + split. We haven't. Just lok at the 4 four game series: Scored 78 runs (16 games) Allowed: 61 Runs Record: 8-8 Three of these series were vs TBR, LAA and MN.

I'm pretty sure we'd have seen Vaz back again in 2016 had Leon not taken control of the issue,

...or how much could be attributed for it just being a rather small sample size?

Ziegler is the only one I'd kick the tires on, but he probably wants to retire out west, and I'm not sure I'd out bid everyone for him either. Let's start fresh next year. I respect what Koji and Taz have done for us, but it's time to move on. I agree on the 4 you named, but you left out Carson Smith. That's 5, but I'm not sure Abad has a lock on a slot. I see it this way: RP1: Kimbrel RP2: _______ RP3: Smith RP4: _______ RP5: Kelly RP6: Ross RP7: One from- Abad, Barnes, Hembree, Elias, Scott, Owens, Johnson

If we trade Holt (and I think we should), we should keep Swihart & Shaw, since Swi can play LF and eventually 1B. His value as a 3rd catcher is also a big plus, especially, if we end up having to PH for Vazquez often. Sam Travis may take a long time to get back on track, so I agree, we should not count on him at all for 2017. I'm not counting on Pablo either, but I'm not counting him out either. I think the line-up I suggested keeps everyone playing enough to be happy and gets the best out of Shaw and Young by platooning them. Young at DH vs LHPs. He can spell OF'ers when they need a rest vs RHPs (Betts & Beni) or LHPs (JBJ). HanRam DHs vs RHPs and plays 1B vs LHPs. Shaw plays 1B vs RHPs only. He may play 3B when Moncada needs a break. Moncada plays 3B pretty much FT, but if he struggles vs LHPs, we could use Hernandez or Shaw, if he shows he can hit lefties again. Pablo is the wild card, but even if he makes it, I see him basically playing only vs RHPs. With Pablo playing, it might look like this: 3B: Moncada (Pablo/Shaw/Hernandez in reserve) 1B: HanRam (Shaw playing some vs RHPs) DH: Pablo vs RHPs/Young vs LHPs (HanRam playing some vs RHPs)

Well said and nice analogy. I doubt we trade a corner IF/er, until we find out who is going to stick. Besides, none have trade value high enough to get anything very special in return, except maybe Swihart and Sam Travis. I have suggested trading Swihart many times, but this winter might not be the best time stock value-wise and because we don't really know if Leon is for real or if Vazquez will ever hit over .600 consistently. I think we end up trading Holt and Owens for a good RP'er and then sign a very good RP'er.

Nothing against Kimbrel, but you just don't give up 4 prospects (2-3 very promising) for a RP'er- period. Then, when you add to that the fact that he's getting paid near FA money, I never understood why so many fans loved the trade. I'm not gloating, because I did not expect Kimbrel to decline. I was against the trade, even if he had a career norm year. We could have just signed Miller, kept the prospects for a later trade (for a better SP'er) and gotten Kenley Jansen or maybe Chapman this winter.

True. It's all about comparative analysis. Shaw's D at 3B is slightly below average. Hill's is about average, so even taking a hit on defense at 3B by playing Moncada over these two may not be significant enough to weigh down the expected gain on offense.

Totally agree. I'll add that he's a deceptively very good base runner. I think he will have 30 HR power by 2017 or 2018. I'm okay with slumps, as long as he has the red hot stretches to go with them.

We could trade for one, but here's the list of FAs: John Axford Joaquin Benoit Jonathan Broxton Buddy Carlyle Brett Cecil Santiago Casilla Aroldis Chapman Jesse Chavez Tim Collins Aaron Crow Wade Davis * Michael Dunn Dana Eveland Neftali Feliz Jason Grilli * Luke Hochevar Greg Holland J.P. Howell Kenley Jansen Casey Janssen Kevin Jepsen Brandon League Boone Logan Javier Lopez Brian Matusz Mark Melancon Joe Nathan Josh Outman Yusmeiro Petit Cesar Ramos Francisco Rodriguez * Sergio Romo Marc Rzepczynski Fernando Salas Sergio Santos Joe Smith Craig Stammen Drew Storen Josh Tomlin Jordan Walden * Brad Ziegler I'm no expert on other teams' RP'ers, b ut there are probably more good ones here than who I highlighted in bold.

HanRam at DH vs RHPs/Young vs LHPs. HanRam at 1B vs LHPs. Shaw at 1B vs RHPs. Pablo as the wild card at DH or 1B. Swihart probably has a better chance at playing 1B than Holt. Sam Travis may not be ready by opening day.

Umm, I actually said UZR/150 shows him as a plus at some positions. In my opiniuon, he's not an above average fielder anywhere, except maybe 2B. Making most of the plays is something the worst fielder in MLB does easily, so that's not saying much. I will agree on the term "serviceable", and I'm not ragging on Holt because of this game. I have said this before today on other sites. When you have a DH only on your 25 man roster, a guy like Holt helps a lot. Even if he doesn't play, having him on the bench gives the manager flexibility to PH or sub others. With Papi gone, Beni pushing Young to the 4th OF'er slot, and Moncada putting the squeeze on the corner IF slots next year, I don't see Holt's value as being as high as it has been. Since Moncada can play 2B, I don't see Holt's value there as high anymore. I've always been high on Hernandez, so I'm not bashing Holt at SS as much as I'm propping up Marco. Swihart is the real wild card when it comes to our utility slot. There are big advantages having him as the last everyday player. Having a guy who can be the 3rd catcher makes PH'ing and PR'ing for a catcher easier. If he can learn to play 1B and proves he can be "serviceable" in LF, he may squeeze out Holt. The presence of Hernandez and marrero with Dubon on the horizon makes the SS position deep enough. I think one of Swihart or Holt gets traded.

There's a reason Holt only has 21 starts at SS over the last 3 years. Besides, I think Hernandez might be as good or better on offense than Holt, and he's way better on defense. Marrero could be behind Holt as might Rutledge, but soon Dubon will pass him. Either way, even if you count Holt as our number 2 guy at SS, he's not that much better than Hernandez.

LOL, nice pitching by ERod too!

Once Papi's gone, Holt's versatility value is diminished. He'll be our 6th string OF'er behind the 3 B's, Young and Swihart. He'll be the 5th of 6th string 1Bman. He'll be the 4th or 5th string 3bman behind Moncada, Shaw, Hernandez, Pablo and maybe Rutledge. He'll be the 3rd or 4th string SS behind Bogey, Hernandez, Marrero and maybe Rutledge. His best position is 2B and Pedey has that covered with Moncada clearly better as his back-up than Holt. I might even prefer Hernandez at 2B over Holt. So, he's not even going to be the #2 guy at any position. He may not even be a #3, except at one of our strongest positions- 2B.