moonslav59

Other than 2B, where Hernandez is pretty close, what position is Holt the clear number one sub? I get the high value of having a guy that can play just about everywhere, but if he's not the first go to guy at 6 of the 7 positions he plays, I'm thinking his value on another team might be MUCH greater than with us. That's not saying he has no value here.

I think we all know there's a significant chance Pablo does not do well- fat or not too fat- or not fat at all.

So, what's changed this year, assuming a need arises? I say nothing. Swihart will plug a hole, if needed. Hopefully, none will open up, and Swihart will be given a long look as a catcher in AAA this year, and maybe we can determine where he best fits in as a result.

Makes me wonder if the need in LF was more of the reason than Swihart's troubles on defense behind the plate. Maybe the readiness of Vazquez made LF a greater need than catcher.

I've always been high on Hernandez. I think he's better on defense than Holt at SS, and might be close to equal at 3B and 2B.

I'm not either, but he's usually around .250 not .225 and 35-40 Hrs might be a lot better than what we find out we have at 3B half way through 2017.

I have heard this developmental comparison to Varitek before. Am I right in assuming that Varitek was a catcher and for the most part a catcher only. Yes, and he led the league in PBs at ages 27 & 28 with his fair share of WPs as well. His CS% rarely got above 30% even after 30. I don't remember anyone raving about VTek's great pitcher handling until after age 30. No, we are not going to wait until Swihart reaches age 30 to see if he can catch. He's much different then VTek. I only brought up VTek's name to show that some catcher take longer than otehrs to develop into a plus-plus. I think the Sox want to be patient. I think they wanted to have him catch in AAA last year, but sometimes team needs take precedent.

He could be better than Moreland. He's probably better (at least on offense) than Holt at 3B. If an OF;er gets hurt and Young is not longer HanRam's platoon partner at DH, Swihart could DH vs LHPs better than anyone else, and be availble elsewhere vs righties. If Young gets hurt, Swihart could be our 4th Of'er.

Yes.

I agree and said so. I'm just saying, if something happens at 1B, 3B or OF during the season, we might see Swihart at another position out of need- just like last year.

I think that Blake Swihart is one hell of an athlete. That being said I doubt very much that he ever catches full time for the Sox. He may get a look but we all know that he has a lot of work to do. The Red Sox don't need to be in a wait mode. He has been dinged around for awhile now so at least it is a good thing I think that they seem committed to leaving him behind the plate. His bat could be race ready early this year. If they can't find a way to use this kid , it would be a shame but in order for him to catch in Boston, he would have to show remarkable improvement in a short period of time. I agree 100% CP. Although Swihart is still young enough to develop into a decent defensive catcher. Some pretty good catchers, like VTek, didn't really become a plus on defense until near or after age 30. I'm not sure the Sox have that long to wait him out, and besides his team control years will be up before age 30 anyways. (He'll be 29 his last arb year.) We have 5 years of team control with Swihart. That's plenty of time to see, first, if he can catch, and if not, learn another position or two. I still think he'll only become our FT catcher, if Leon and/or Vaz stumble. Certainly a significant chance of that exists to keep Swihart on the catcher development path than to seriously have him start learning another position. I don't see any harm in having him take some reps at 3B and 1B and maybe even LF (again), but nothing that would interfere with his catcher reps. I get the messing with his psyche argument, and if Sox management feels he probably can't handle it, then I trust their choice to wait it out. Do people think that this franchise is willing to wait a couple of years for him to develop as an actual catcher if his bat is major league ready? Do they need to? Personally, I wonder what is going through his mind right about now. I can see the push to have Swihart play 3B, 1B, DH or LF this year, if something unfortunate happens at any of those positions during the season. I think his bat is too good to leave at AAA, if we have a giant need somewhere.

Agreed, but HanRam can play 1B and Moreland can play 1B and corner OF. Papi could play 1B in NL parks, but that was about it. I agree; every team needs good subs, and having one that can play many positions is a great value to have, but I think Holt would play more on other teams. That seems to indicate his value would be higher on other teams. That does not mean we should trade him, but sometimes it becomes the foundation for a trade. In theory, the drop off from Holt to Hernandez would be more than offset by the improvement at the position we trade for. Plus, I'm not even sure there's be a drop off at some positions, if Hernandez takes his place. Here's a possible scenario: let's say Pablo sucks or gets hurt, we could maybe trade Holt for Todd Frazier at the deadline or beforehand. BTW MLBTR reports.... If Pablo Sandoval doesn’t reestablish himself as a capable third baseman this year, the Red Sox could eventually swing a trade for Todd Frazier of the White Sox, writes Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. Chicago will have paid more than half of Frazier’s $12.5MM salary by the trade deadline, which should make the 31-year-old an attractive target for Boston or other contenders, Cafardo observes. Given that the White Sox are amid a rebuild, it seems they’d prefer to ship out established veterans like Frazier sooner than later, as general manager Rick Hahn implied in an interview with MLBTR contributor Brett Ballantini earlier this week.

It surely has value. Now that we don't have DH only, I think the need is not so great

Last year he only had 324 PAs and still faded late in the season. Career OPS by month: .840 APR .646 MAY .828 JUN .707 JUL .618 AUG .652 SEP .788 first half .620 second half I've caught some grief for holding this position, but I still think Holt's value is greater on another team than ours, where they could use him more often, and where a .700 OPS is better than what some starters give those teams. Also, his best position is 2B, and that is a spot he just won't get much time playing in Boston, unless there's an unfortunate injury. Holt is great as an emergency jack-of-all-trades, but if we need someone to cover a position for a 10+ day stretch, here's how I see Holt's placement on our depth extended need chart: 2B: Holt (Hernandez very capable/Marrero capable) SS: Hernandez then Holt or Marrero 3B: Rutledge then Holt or Hernandez LF: Young then Holt, then or Quentin/Moreland 1B: Moreland or HanRam, then Travis, then Holt CF or RF: Young then Holt As much as I love having a guy like Holt on our 25 man roster, I see him as the top sub at only one position (2B) and maybe pretty close at 2 more (3B & SS). That alone is not reason to trade him, and I wouldn't go out of my way to trade him at least until we know more about Pablo. I could see him being part of a package at the deadline to fill a need that arises over the season. (Note: I'm not bashing Holt. I like him a lot, but the foundation of any trade usually starts with the idea that a player might have more value with the other team...and vice versa.

Could be true, but I do think being at the big league level earlier than planned should not have been a major stunting aspect of his development, especially since he did pretty good in 2015. Usually rushing a prospect only backfires when he sucks and loses confidence. While I don't disagree with your position, I think he got great coaching at the big league level in 2015 and seemed to improve as the season went on. I'm sure they helped him focus on his highest need areas, and put no offensive pressure on him. 2016 was an entirely different situation. They lost faith quickly and then were pressed into switching him to LF out of team needs.

I think Swihart should get all the time he needs to develop his defensive catching skills, but I don't think it would hurt to let him start taking a few grounders at 3B after he's done with practice.

I agree that Swihart's highest value (here or in trade) is probably going to be as a catcher. I agree, he was rushed (out of necessity) in levels, but he was still catching that year. I'm not sure we can bllame a lack of opportunity to catch on his defensive woes. Age 20: 66 games catching at Greenville (A) Age 21: 101 games catching at Salem (A+) Age 22: 97 games catching (81 at AA and 16 at AAA) Age 23: 100 games catching (83 at MLB and 17 at AAA & AA) Then 2016. I'm not sure the 83 games at the ML level in 2015 hurt as much as we might think it did, He actually did okay, andif anything, it should have helped his confidence. Had those 83 ML games been at AAA not MLB, he'd have had what looked like a perfect progression in games and levels catching in professional baseball with 2016 or 2017 looking like his year to break into MLB as a catcher, assuming he proved worthy at AAA.

I don't think it matters what side of the plate he stands vs lefties. I'm not sure he can ever hit well enough to not platoon. Pablo splits: 2015 vs RHPs: .744 vs LHPs: .465 (.142 as RHB/.590 as LHB) 2014 vs RHPs: .824 vs LHPs: .563 (all as RHB) 2013 vs RHPs: .786 vs LHPs: .686 (all as RHB) 2012 vs RHPs: .809 vs LHPs: .745 2011 vs RHPs: .961 vs LHPs: .723 2010 vs RHPs: .779 vs LHPs: .589 2009 vs RHPs: .914 vs LHPs: 1.028 2008 vs RHPs: .950 vs LHPs: .558 A strong case could be made that Pablo should have always been a platoon player-- same as Carl Crawford. He was excellent in 2009 and respectable in 2012. His 6 other seasons we platoon worthy. He's had an OPS under .590 vs LHPs in half his seasons! He's been under .724 in 6 of his 8 seasons. I'm not sure how getting in "the best shape of his life" is going to help his eye vs lefties. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we should expect and plan for a 3B platoon this year. I think that's why we got Rutledge.

I'm not saying there is no reason for any concerns on JBJ, but the guy is streaky, and we shouldn't always view a player's last few PAs as a roadmap for what is to come. It could have just been a bad slump that happened to occur as the season ended. 2016 was also the first time JBJ played in more than 145 games, and they were all at the ML level. His career OPS is .726, and his 2016 OPS was .835. His his last 28 days OPS was .773. That's not something alarmingly low. It's actually right between his career and 2016 OPS and could be what JBJ will end up near after his career is over. If you take away his last 3 games, he would have ended the season at .850. He had an amazing year following an amazing end to 2015 (August>Septmeber). I'll take his last 8 months of offense any day of the week- bad streaks and all.

This on Holt from MLBTR... While there’s interest across the majors in utilityman Brock Holt, the Red Sox aren’t looking to trade him, writes Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. “Many clubs like him a great deal,” said president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski. Since debuting in the majors with Pittsburgh in 2012, the versatile Holt has seen action everywhere but catcher and pitcher, though Boston doesn’t have an obvious place to put him this year. Most of Holt’s playing time last season came in left field, where ballyhooed rookie Andrew Benintendi will line up in 2017. Even including 2016, though, the majority of Holt’s big league experience has come at third base, but the Red Sox are banking on a revival at the hot corner from fellow lefty-swinger Pablo Sandoval. Thus, barring another poor showing from Sandoval – which is quite possible, of course – Holt could struggle to find reps. Nevertheless, Holt told Cafardo he’s “extremely happy” to be in Boston. The 2015 All-Star is under Red Sox control through the 2019 season.

Until last year's .765 in 195 PAs at AAA, Travis has been remarkably consistent. He has been between .813 and .845 at every place he's been. If he can hit over .800 at the ML level, he might be replacing Moreland- assuming he is struggling.

Agreed. It's not by chance our two highest non pitching prospects play 1B and 3B.

The Dodgers spent more by far, but many were their own players, so maybe some don't count them.

I think it was a given that either HanRam or Pablo would move to DH once Papi retired. I'm glad HanRam likes the idea. It's not always easy for players to transition to the DH role, but HR has done well in a small sample size at DH. I think him playing 1B vs LHPs (about 23% of starts) works perfectly in keeping him sharp and ready to play 1B in NL parks. Whenever Devers is ML ready (2018?), we could see Pablo move to 1B with HR continuing to play 1B vs LHPs.

I was talking about when we signed him. He hurt the shoulder while playing LF after the signing. Eventually, I saw him taking over at DH.