moonslav59

The league might argue that we were given an updated injury report and the chance to reverse the trade already. We rolled the dice and maybe lost, if he is indeed still recovering from that same injury and performs poorly as a result.

As arb costs rise and extension talks begin with our core young players, it would really help if we could add some minimum cost players to replace our free agents - to- be: after 2017: Moreland >> Shaw (maybe Devers with Pablo moving to 1B/DH) Young >> Swihart Abad >> Scott, Owens, Johnson, Ysla, others That's about $14M to cover option year recalculated luxury tax increases: C Sale $6.5M to $11.5M Kimbrel $10.5M to $12.0M Total: $6.5M Arb Raises: Betts arb 1 of 3 Bogey $4.5M> arb 2 of 3 Pomeranz $4.45M > arb 3 of 3 Bradley $3.6M > arb 2 of 4 J Kelly $2.8M > arb 3 of 3 Thornburg $2.02M > arb 2 of 3 B Holt $1.95M > arb 2 of 3 Rob Ross $1.825M > arb 3 of 3 S Leon $1.3M C Smith > 1st of 3 arbs ERod & Swihart> 1st of 4 arbs Wright and Vazquez > 1st of 3 arbs My guess is, we go over the luxury limit, even if we sign no new free agents. After 2018 might be too hard to speculate, but we do know this: Kimbrel ($12M), Pom (3rd arb), Kelly (3rd arb) and Ross (3rd arb) reach free agency. This might total close to $23M, which might pay for more arb raises and Sale's raise in option from $12.5M to $13.5M. There might be a little left over for a mid level free agent or go towards part of an extension, but I think either way, we'll be over the limit for a second year in a row. After 2019, things become wild and crazy. We lose may lose these players to free agency: $22.0M HanRam (Travis/Devers/Dalbec?) $20.6M Porcello (Groome?) $19.0M Sandoval (Devers/Dalbec/Hernandez?) $13.5M C Sale 3rd arb Bogaerts 3rd arb Thornburg WOW! Betts & JBJ on their final arb year too.

I think we still should be given the chance to back out of the deal right now.

MLB Network now has the buy one team package. It might be cheaper than the bundle.

Or just get basic cable.

I know I cringe when I pay for my cable bill!

I still the money saved by trading Buch will allow us to acquire a better player when we need it.

Maybe, if all these pitchers signing minor league deals knew we had so many starter injuries, they might agree to sign with us.

Yes, we can all be thankful for that. I can see why he'd want to avoid big luxury tax costs, if possible, and the penalties for going $20M or more over are very punitive. The sky is NOT the limit.

I thought there was talk of these guys possibly being ready for the playoffs last year. This doesn't make sense.

You know one thing that bugs me about this sort of thing? We wait until ST'ing to find out he needs surgery, and the return clock is pushed back by 4-5 months. I'm not saying it's the case here, but I often wonder why it seems to happen so often. I know doctors sometimes think pro-longed rest will help, and it doesn't, but it's something that has me scratching my head from time to time.

Well, with ERod's tweak of his knee, the 5th and 6th starters might be 4th and 5th starters.

I'm not so sure; when he looks at the Pablo line on his expense report, he might cringe a little. (Also the Castillo line.)

I didn't mean you. You have been very clear about knowing it's not going to be easy down the road. If you go back and look at some of the posts made after the Sale trade, there were many responses that seemed to or blatantly said there was nothing to worry about concerning our long term future. Statements such as, "We will rebuild the farm by then," or "We can spend more," were thrown about. When questioned for further details on how we could do that, some of us were accused of whining, complaining, not wanting to trade any prospects, and more recently, "suffering". It was implied by some that we could not enjoy the present, because we had concerns about the future. I'm not trying to convince everyone to worry or be concerned. Some people just aren't wired that way, or they have other reasons for not being or voicing their concerns. I'm fine with that. I welcome a variety of opinions. My responses and statements have largely been to try and detail just how hard it is going to be to rebuild the farm under the new system for those who care to know. My position is one of trying to maintain a balance between the now and the later, and I think we went a little too far to one end of the spectrum. I'm not preaching doomsday, and I'm not calling for DD;'s head or even contemplating the idea. I love the team we have. The Sale trade is like a dream come true for me. It's the type of trade I have advocated for dozens of years. I'm not a worry wart, but I do have the future in mind often in my life and in my view on the Sox. My life goal was to retire at 45, so you can see where my mind is at, in general. I've had a lot of fun in my life that cost a lot of money, like 3 trips to Europe (one for 3 months), 3 trips to Brazil (2 months total), and many other shorter excursions, so I do believe in enjoying the here and now, too. It's not easy constructing a team that looks to be very highly competitive for 3-5 years. I think Ben's contribution has been a little short-changed and assumptions about what he might have done these last 2 years may be baseless. It's hard to find much wrong with what has been done, but I happen to think we went just a little too far with trading away prospects. I'd prefer we still had Espi, but I'm far from suffering over the fact that he's gone.

I think he'd still be on the team at $5M a year. It's not like we have a roster crunch at 25 or 40, and our number of other ML starter quality 3Bmen in the system is virtually nill. He might have been traded, if he was making $5M, but I don't think he'd have been DFA'd. (Not a certainty though)

From time to tome, I find myself wondering what we could be doing with Pablo's money right now. Maybe we're arguing semantics, but I suppose it could be called "worrying" about the signing...still I will say, I'm not suffering over it.

Cuban Left-Hander Osvaldo Hernandez Declared Free Agent By Mark Polishuk | February 12, 2017 at 5:54pm CDT Cuban left-hander Osvaldo Hernandez has been declared a free agent and can now sign with any team, MLB.com’s Jesse Sanchez reports (via Twitter). Several teams are already interested in the 18-year-old southpaw, including the Astros, Braves, Mets, Padres, Rangers, Reds and Red Sox. Due to Hernandez’s young age, his signing is subject to international bonus pools. (As a reminder of how the international signing system has been altered by the new collective bargaining agreement, check out this refresher from Baseball America’s Ben Badler). One factor that hasn’t changed is that teams who exceeded their international spending limits in the last two July 2 classes are still serving their previously-mandated penalties, i.e. limited to spending no more than $300K on any pool-eligible player. By waiting until this July 2 to sign, Hernandez could open his market up to teams like the Diamondbacks, Blue Jays, Angels, Rays, Yankees and Red Sox, as those six clubs would no longer be held to the $300K limit. Boston, it should be noted, can’t sign Hernandez at all until July 2 since the Sox were banned from signing any pool-eligible players whatsoever during this signing class. With significant interest in Hernandez’s services already, however, the young southpaw may not feel the need to wait. Also, since the old CBA’s rules are still in effect until the 2017-18 international signing period begins, Hernandez probably stands a better chance of scoring a richer contract now than he will when the stricter pool rules are instituted after July 2. Of the teams connected to Hernandez already, the Braves, Astros, Reds and Padres have already surpassed their bonus pools for the 2016-17 international signing period, so they would be paying a 100 percent tax on Hernandez’s signing bonus if a deal was reached. Hernandez didn’t appear on any of the top prospects lists from Baseball America, Fangraphs or MLB.com for the current international signing period, though BA’s list didn’t include players who weren’t already eligible to sign. The 18-year-old does already possess a fastball clocked between 92-94mph, according to Sanchez.

Fair enough, but I bet you aren't for trading Groome, Swihart, Travis, Owens and Rauses for Quintana to totally go for the here and now with a major blow to "the future".

The Braves traded for Brandon Phillips and got the Reds to pay $13M out of the $14M owed! The Reds got minor league pitchers Andrew McKirahan and Carlos Portuondo.

Some posters confuse concern with stressed or very stressed or try to guess what others' feelings and/ or intentions are.

Some posters clearly hinted this might be the case when they spoke of it just being potential we traded and nobody knows if the prospects ever will amount to anything. That was saying our future "might not be" impacted. Of course, they are right, but the chances are our future will be significantly affected by at least one of these trades over the last year is great.

I've never said or implied anyone is happy to get rid of prospects, but clearly there are posters who for a long time are much more willing to trade prospects than others. There are others on the other extreme who seem to never want to trade prospects. In my opinion, much of the debate about our long term future heated up when some posters seemed to be making light of just how difficult it was going to be to rebuild the farm to even close to what it was a year or two ago. Maybe I misread their statements like many misread mine, but there were a few posters who came right out and said, "Don't worry about the future." It's hard not to assume they meant there was nothing to worry about, or that they are the types of people who live in the moment. Maybe I'm wrong on those assumptions the same way others are wrong in saying we're "suffering", when nothing is further from the truth, for me anyway. I'm ecstatic right now, and I think having some higher concern about the future than I had 1-2 years ago in no way implies or suggests my current enjoyment is compromised or lessened in any way. We all want the Sox to win now and forever.

I'm not telling others to be concerned. I'm responding to those who wrongly label us concerned posters as "suffering". I'm responding to those, who a while back, seemed to be saying rebuilding the farm back up to a plus was something we should expect and felt even talking about how difficult that was going to be under the new system was "whining" or negating the thought that we have ability to enjoy what we have now, because we are somehow "suffering" over our long term outlook. If the team's concerns are the only thing that matters, why are any of us here voicing our opinions, concerns and beliefs? BTW, I think the team was concerned aout our long term future when they said no to Philly, but that's just my opinion.

One could argue (not me) back during the year up to when Cole Hamels was eventually traded, that a Betts & Bogey for Hamels would have been just what we needed for the "Papi window". We had just won a ring in 2013, so the base was there to add to and keep the "window" open for 2-3 more years. I'm not arguing against the Sale and Thornburg trades. I love them. I'm just saying I think striking a better balance would have made us very competitive now while still improving our extended outlook as well. I'm tickled to death with our 25 man roster and about 5-6 guys beyond that. We have a nice window. It's not easy building a team with a 3-5 year "window" and one could argue 2016 was within the window too as we had a good chance last year. That's really a 4-6 year window Ben & DD built. I hope we find a way to be highly competitive from 4-8 or more years beyond that. I'm concerned not obsessed. I'm a bit worried but not "suffering". It's winter. There's no baseball, so sometimes the talk diverts to our extended future.

I'm going to really enjoy the next 3-5 years and hopefully many years beyond that.