moonslav59

I never said Lugo was great, but in 2007, he had plus range at SS. That was lost after 2007 due to injuries and decline. He was barely above replacement value that year, but he wasn't a negative. I can't believe I was defending Lugo after spending months arguing with softy the clown and his "He was the wire-to-wire SS for a championship club" rants. I stand corrected. He didn't play "well". he played "okay", but he certainly played much better than the folloing years,

Hard to let go when Miller is pitching so well, but your point is well taken.

Totally agree, and Lugo actually played well in 2007, including decent D at SS.

We could have also had ERod and Miller.

Assuming he's not just the second half Shaw for all of next year.

Even Dubon could be an in-season option.

Projecting ahead Xander becomes FA in 2020, JBJ and Betts the following year. Pablo's and Hanley's contracts will go away after 2019 season, $5M buy out on Pablo's. That will release $40M in annual contracts. Rick Porcello will be a free agent for 2020 season along with Xander. I'm thinking $40M 'savings', adjusted for mlb 'inflation' (I'm not talking about cpi for your nerds out there) will cover Xander and Porcello. Porcello signing maybe more critical than Xander's at that point. We may have other options. Beni, Moncada, Devers all maybe in their prime by then as they go through their arbitration years. Sox will still be locked into Price's contract until 2022, $32M per year. No way we'll not resign Betts. I would love it but I just don't think we can afford to have EE's contract if it goes beyond 4 years. Too much money will be needed to keep our current youngsters on the roster by then. That is why I won't be too upset if we don't do much this winter. Yes Moon, we'll need to shore up our bullpen but we can do it without giving up the farm. E Rod needs to be given time to develop into upper echelon starting pitcher (ie DO NOT TRADE HIM). Who knows if he'll get there but you don't trade away a guy with his potential. At a comparable age, 2017 season would have been Lester's break out year (something similar to what Porcello did in 2016). Guys like Wright and Pomeranz also need to be retained. They come cheap. I don't disagree with anything here. I do think we can keep all the kids, if we don't get wrapped up in any deals that go beyond 2019. I'm not worried about the 50% penalty if we are going over the limit by $20M at max. That's only a $10M penalty. It's just cash at that point. We paid $30M penalty on a $30M signing. And what was the posting fee for our friend from Japan? 50% penalty on say $10M? I'll speak for John Henry. In my best imitation of Matt Damon to Johnny Chan in movie Rounders, "Don't sweat it, Moon". I really don't care, if we go over, but I've always gone on the assumption we won't go over by much, since we never have. This past season was the most, and we have to also look at the fact that Henry is also paying for Craig and Castillo, so that $10M tax is amplified. I'd be happy, if we signed EE and Jensen, as long as we planned to lock up our kids when the time comes. I looked at last winter as a one time splurge to get us back to significance with the idea that we'd reset the luxury tax this winter or next, and if it was next winter, we wouldn't go over by much this winter. I could be wrong. I have been before.

Agreed, but it gets a little foggy when you talk about Julio Lugo, Jake Peavy and Ryan Dempster.

Vic's $13M in 2014 and $13M in 2015 sure didn't help, but I'm okay with the "if you win a ring" argument as long as the player clearly had a significant role in the championship. There's a lot of nostalgia over the Theo and Tito years, and mush is well founded, but there were clear reasons why both are gone right now. Do I wish we had Tito back? Yes. Was I against his being shown the door? Not really. Do I wish we had Theo instead of DD? Yes. Can we look at his total body of work since the Nomar trade and see that much was not so bright and sunny? There was a lot of good Theo did. We won another ring in 2007, we added some good young talent and we stayed competetive just about every year after 2004. Here are some of the head-scratchers: Renteria (We paid essentially $30M for that one year here.), Arroyo>Pena, Wade Miller, Matt Clement (injury), Julio Lugo, Dice-K, Penny & Smoltz, Rizzo> AGon, Carl Crawford, Reddick> A Bailey (injury) Beckett extension, not moving Andrew Miller to the pen earlier... There's probably more, and there's certainly a lot of good things I failed to mention, but let's remember, even Theo admitted he had "lost sight" of best way to build a team. I get the pining for the good ole days, but let's not forget the significant issues this team had when Theo and Tito left.

I was against the signing. It was not a "mistake". Vic was a big part of our 2013 ring. One could argue he helped contribute to our last place finishes afterwards. In hindsight, I'd do the deal again, but I was against it at the time.

You worded it to insinuate that Ramirez, Dempster & Victorino were all mistakes. I've been against many moves, but I'm not right all the time. I liked the HanRam deal better than the Pablo deal. Some said HanRam could have gotten more money. Had we done HanRam without Pablo, I'd have liked it better. Originally, I thought HanRam at 3B was the better idea. First base turned out to be much better- clearly much better than LF. I liked Vic a lot. His overall play in 2013 was an essential part of our championship. I did not like the deal because of the 3 years. In my opinion, I was right, but the deal was not a "mistake". We won a ring, and his $39M was part of the cost. I don't feel like bringing up the Dempster argument. I didn't like it, but I wouldn't say it was a mistake, especially since he did us a favor by retiring year 2. I meant that in the context of the alternative of him returning when he didn't really have his heart in it... and as a year older. He ate innings. He didn't embarrass himself. He was a positive clubhouse guy. I can't change the fact that I was against the deal at the time. The Masterson deal was a mistake. Even the staunchest Sox brass supporter (or apologist) has to agree there, even if just on the hindsight view.

No, but I do feel it was a symptom of Beckett's loss of a winning "attitude". Maybe some rubbed off- maybe not. It's the age old question: did the bad attitude cause the collapse or did the collapse cause the bad attitude? Maybe neither..

Bringing in a knuckler might work to throw off the opps timing, but I think Wright could prove to be too good to be in the pen.

I was one of Wake's biggest defenders vs the softy the clown's onslaught on that "other site". I have always wanted Wright to get a solid chance at starting. I was bummed when he got hurt last year after 9 pretty good starts. Too many people right off knucklers (pun intended). Wright had a great first half to 2016. I think he deserves an inside track to the rotation.

It wasn't a "story": it was real. So was the Shoppach's text from AGon's phone.

I never said Vic and Ramirez were mistakes. I said I was against both signings. I do think Dempster was a mistake but understandable. We lucked out when he retired.

Yeah, you're right. It's Ben's fault that the guy Theo signed (Lackey) was hurt all 2012, the guy Theo extended (Beckett) sucked in 2012, Lester had his career worst season and the fill-ins: Dice-K, Cook and Doubront didn't help much. The fact is, the rotation that imploded in 2011 sucked or was hurt in 2012 too. If people want to blame Ben for 2012 while others give Theo credit for 2013, then there's not much I can say. I don't think hiring Bobby V was Ben's idea. There's no doubt Ben missed badly with Pablo. Many felt he missed badly with HanRam too, before 2016. He'd still be here, if those guys just hit 90% of their career norms. Ben made a lot of moves I was against. I don't want to sound like an apologist for the moves he made. I was against many of them (Pablo, HanRam, Vic, Dempster and Masterson). The Tito firing looks bad now, but who knows if that is on Ben or Larry, and besides, many fans thought the clubhouse turmoil demanded Tito's firing. Ben did some great things though. Napoli, Uehara and rebuilding a farm system Theo left on the decline. He got us out from under Theo's biggest mistake: Crawford and shed Beckett in the process. He set the team of for the long run and was yanked before it really had a chance to show the fruits of his labor. His FAs bombed worse than DD's. For that he is gone, and I'm not losing sleep over his departure.

Yeah, the rotation Ben got from Theo. It's not Tito's fault they sucked. It's not Theo's fault they sucked. But it's Ben's fault that same rotation had us 11.5 games behind with 4 days to go to the deadline that saw the great purge.

I actually think Buch or Pom will be in the pen, if everyone is healthy. Wright's my 4th starter right now.

Wright has actually did pretty well before 2016. He had a 3.96 ERA as a starter last year in 9 starts. Over his 35 career MLB starts: 16-11 3.52 (1.24 WHIP) AAA: 3.67 in 52 starts AA: 3.51 ERA in 50 starts I kept hearing the same thing about Wake. Nobody expects a great knuckleballer to repeat his greatness.

We traded Espi and have Kopech and Groome.

That's why I keep mentioning Frazier, but he's not worth a significant overpay.

Despite his poor ending to 2016, I agree. I doubt we sign him though.

So Ben failed to extend and ended up trading away our "horrible rotation" and then you hold it against him. Hmmm....

You mean the great one Theo assembled and Tito directed? The one left for Ben? (Lester, Lackey, Beckett, Wake & Bedard subbing for Buch. We had Andrew Miller and Paplebon in the pen.