moonslav59

I've been thinking more and more about Upton. He's passed Moustakas and Santana on my list. 1. JD Martinez 2. Stanton 3. Upton 4. Santana 5. Moustakas 6. Morrison/Duda plus Bruce or some other good 4th OF'er. If we could get Upton and Santana, we might be pretty well set-up. We could trade JBJ, Johnson and Hembree for a starting pitcher. 1. Bogey SS 2. Betts RF 3. Beni CF 4. Upton LF 5. Santana 1B 6. Devers 3B 7. HRam DH 8. Pedey 2B (Hernandez/Holt/Lin) 9. Vaz C Bench: Leon, Hernandez, Lin and Travis/Marrero (Swihart/Castillo/Mars) SP: Sale, Price, Pom, _____, Porcello, Wright (ERod, Velazquez, Beeks, Haley, Elias) RP: Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Workman, Maddox, Scott (Thornburg, R Ross, Taylor, Martin)

It is hard to know how. Basically every significant deal DD made, except for Young and Moreland was for ML ready pitching. Sale Price Pom Kimbrel Smith & Thornburg Fister (Nunez & Davis were mid year deals.) I guess, in hindsight, one could take back the Travis-Thornburg deal, and we'd have a couple more prospects on the farm and a power hitting 1Bman, but not many of us disliked that trade when it was made.

When they signed HRam, the first thing I thought of was third base. Then I heard we also signed Pablo, and I thought, "WTF!!!"

They'd be playing him at 2B this fall/winter, if they even thought he could play there. They are not.

I doubt we do anything at 2B but hope & pray Hernandez/Holt/Lin/Marrero can carry us over until Pedey can play again.

Even with no surgery, I'd pass. Makes you wonder how many Sox players were playing injured last year. Price HRam Pedey Scott Smith Workman ERod Bogey? Betts? Moreland Plus, these guys missing all or almost the whole season: Wright Thornburg R Ross Next, we'll find out Porcello was playing injured.

I agree that number 4 might not be enough, but I have a feeling the best offer made for Stanton is not going to be as good as many feel it needs to be. A lot will depend on whether Jeter takes a "long look" and likes players like Groome, Mata and Flores, or if he wants more close-to-ML-ready prospects.

Other years, he could have won it with that performance.

Back to Stanton: two questions from me, do any of these offers get us Stanton, and if so, which is the best one from our perspective? 1) JBJ (via 3rd team for prospects sent to MIA)+ Chavis and Flores 2) Bogey (via 3rd team for prospects sent to MIA) + Chavis and Groome or Mata 3) JBJ & Bogey (both via 3rd teams for prospects flipped to MIA) 4) 2 from Groome, Mata and Houck, plus Flores, plus Chavis or Chatham/Dalbec + Ockimey/Travis, plus 1 or 2 from Beeks, Shawaryn and Scherff (Maybe include Brannen).

The only question is how shiny the new toys will be.

No, but all are better than Moreland on offense. I'd be pissed, if one of these guys was all we got. I'd me more pissed if all we do is bring back Moreland and someone similar to Nunez.

I do assume that, but now that the season is over, what else is there to ponder? After all, someone was willing to pay Pablito more than 1 dollar. How's this? HRam $22M or $44M, if he vests plus a prospect (or Hembree, Holt or Swihart, if anyone sees value in them) for... $49M/3 Ian Kennedy (We'd save $6M on the luxury budget in 2018: they save $5M to $27M depedning on the vesting option.) or $74M/3 Jordan Zimmerman (We break even on luxury budget & the Tigers save $30-50M.)

Nobody is trying convince anyone that HRam has value to other teams, let alone "very very" much. I'm looking to try and find a trade partner that has an equal salary dump situation as we do. I admitted the Miami deal I suggested was a bad one. Would the Tigers trade Miggy for HRam straight up? Hell yah! I wouldn't. Would the White Sox trade jamie Shields for HRam? Maybe. I probably wouldn't. Those are the types of deals I'm looking at- trying to convince a team that HRam has a ton of value. We could also throw in other players or prospects to "sweeten" the deal, but we'd need to get one thing back, either some more spending space or a salary dump type player that plays 1B, SP'er, 2B or possibly 4th OF/DH. I'll look at some AL team's salary dumps soon, and see if I see a match.

1) Denying HRam 497 PAs, if he is sucking next year is not unethical. 2) I'm not for denying him the 497, if he's playing well. 3) It only takes about 50 less PAs than this year for him to not vest. 4) I'm fine with no FA ever getting another vesting option with the Sox. They are pretty rare anyways. 5) I seriously doubt denying HRam 497 PAs by signing Duda, assuming Duda does well and HRam sucks again will make any future player think twice about accepting an equal or the highest offer by the Red Sox.

Please! Let Moreland go elsewhere. We placed 24th in 1B WAR last year and need more offense and power than Moreland gives. If we don't sign JD or trade for Stanton, there are still a few better options than Moreland. There are DH types like Upton and Bruce, and there's Moose at 1B with Devers moving to 1B, but at 1B, I'd take any of these guys over Moreland: Santana Duda Morrison maybe Alonso then there's Hosmer who will get too many years at too high a dollar amount. .

IMO, Judge is a clear second place in MVP.

This may or may not be a good method for determining what positions need the most attention this winter, but here are some positional ranking numbers for 2017 and 2016-2017 samples: 2017 Position (2016-2017 ranking) 3rd +5.3 RF Betts (1st at +13.3) 9th +3.2 SS Bogaerts (4th at +8.0) 14th +2.2 LF Beni (17th at +2.8) 8th out of 15 -0.4 DH Ramirez 17th +2.3 CF JBJ (7th at +7.3) 18th +1.9 2B Pedroia (8th at +7.3) T19th +1.6 C Vazquez (27th +1.5/Leon 20th +2.9) 25th +0.9 1B Moreland Devers at 3B changes the narrative. Two different 1Bmen over the past 2 years and Moreland being a FA makes 1B and or DH the obvious high need area. 2017 Team Rankings 4th RF 11th SS 16th 2B 17th C (does not include value with staff) 18th LF 21st CF 24th 1B (I don't get posters who want Moreland back) 28th 3B (Projecting Devers to a 2.4 WAR would have placed us 17th.)

I'm not trying to say HRam is worth anywhere near $22M, but his last 3 year WAR was greatly affected by his poor defense in LF in 2015 and being a DH for much of his other time in Boston. As you know, the DH is penalized in WAR calculations. Interesting, how you chose only the 1 and 3 years sample sizes- not the two year one. From 2016-2017, HRam ranked 7th in DH WAR at + 2.3 and 6th in wRC+ at 112. Yeah, his 93 wRC+ this year was bad, but he still placed 7th among DH's in that category (9th out of 15, if you expand to 400+ PAs) He placed 7th out of 15 in DH OPS and was just .005 from 5th out of 15. I'm not defending HRam. I hated the signing from day one. He's been hurt or playing hurt for much of his time here. I doubt anyone wants him, unless we pay $10-15M or take back salary dump players in return. The Marlins are not a good fit for HRam. I get that. My trade proposal was a bad one. I admit it. Maybe there's an AL team out there with $20M in "dumps" that would swap.

Fair enough, but the whole system is a joke.

Again, you are assuming a player's value is exactly what his value was in just the previous year. Other times, you use last 2-3 year sample sizes to make a point. My guess is GMs do not value HRam at $22M, but they don't view him as a negative either, assuming he recovers from surgery. Ziegler will be 38 next year. I get why the Marlins would not want HRam. Plus, they already have a 1Bman and do not have a DH in their league. They'd probably take Castillo (especially if they trade Stanton) for Ziegler and Volquez, but that would blow up our luxury tax number.

Why should how weak the AL West is or how close the wild card race was matter for who wins the MVP? If the Yanks won the WC by 10 games and the Astros won the AL West by 2 games, then Altuve wins the MVP? Not in my world. Why should having other good players on your team matter as well. I get the "valuable" vs "best" argument, but I feel a player should not be penalized for having other good players on his team. It should be an award for the best player- hitter or pitcher. Most of these awards are jokes. There's no set standards on any of them. For these reasons, they mean close to nothing to me.

I've been against Hosmer all along, and my support of the idea of signing Moose and moving Devers to 1B has been losing my confidence the more closely I look at Moustakas. He's not a great fielder. He has a low OBP. His massive power could have been an outlier. To me, it's JD or Stanton, with Upton and/or Santana (or Upton and Duda) being secondary choices. 1. JD Martinez 2. Stanton 3. Upton and Santana 4. Upton & Duda 5. Upton & a 1 year fix at 1B 6. Santana & a decent 4th OF'er/DH 7. Moustakas & a decent 4th OF'er/DH 8. ?????

People need to stop these "Duda/Alonso" stopgap suggestions that would only lead to an eventual grievance from the union and make Boston a less desirable stop for other free agents). All HRam has to do is play well in 2018,an d he'll get his 497 PAs, even with Duda and JD on the 25 man roster. He may file a grievance, if he sucks next year and misses out on 497, but he won't win. I'm not buying the idea that serious damage will be done to the Sox image, in terms of future free agent signings. If HRam sucks in 2017, it will be basically 3 out of 4 years falling short or way short of expectations. A team should be able to make plans to mitigate serious problems on their teams. He is having surgery, so signing someone good as insurance should not be an affront to HRam. Like I said, if HRam stays healthy and plays well, he can and should still get over 500 PAs next year. JD Martinez plays the OF whenever any of them needs a rest or gets hurt. That should be at least 100 PAs in the field. If JBJ keeps struggling, he may get more "rest" than is needed, so that number could be closer to 150 that 100 PAs with zero OF injuries. JD has only played more than 123 games once in his career. He's only gotten over 517 PAs once. That being said, let's assume he gets 650 like he did this year. That's 150 in the OF and 500 at DH. That leaves about 200 PAs at DH and 700 at 1B. That's 900 PAs total for Duda and HRam to split, assuming absolutely no injuries at LF, CF, RF, 1B and DH (highly unlikely). If HRam can't play well enough to get 500 out of those 900 PAs, then he has no beef. If he plays well, and we still keep him from getting 497, then he has a beef. I doubt we bench him, if he's doing better than Duda and JBJ (or even Beni vs LHPs).

I agree. I think 5 years might get him, but even that is a year or two too long. However, I'd still do it. Trading for Stanton would open too many other holes, although, if we miss out on JD or Moustakas, I'd go hard after Stanton (with Bogey, if needed).

Zeigler has negative trade value. Volquez is close to zero trade value. Together, these two cancel out HRam's salary. Gordon has value, but is getting paid a lot.