moonslav59

Fair enough, but I bet you aren't for trading Groome, Swihart, Travis, Owens and Rauses for Quintana to totally go for the here and now with a major blow to "the future".

The Braves traded for Brandon Phillips and got the Reds to pay $13M out of the $14M owed! The Reds got minor league pitchers Andrew McKirahan and Carlos Portuondo.

Some posters confuse concern with stressed or very stressed or try to guess what others' feelings and/ or intentions are.

Some posters clearly hinted this might be the case when they spoke of it just being potential we traded and nobody knows if the prospects ever will amount to anything. That was saying our future "might not be" impacted. Of course, they are right, but the chances are our future will be significantly affected by at least one of these trades over the last year is great.

I've never said or implied anyone is happy to get rid of prospects, but clearly there are posters who for a long time are much more willing to trade prospects than others. There are others on the other extreme who seem to never want to trade prospects. In my opinion, much of the debate about our long term future heated up when some posters seemed to be making light of just how difficult it was going to be to rebuild the farm to even close to what it was a year or two ago. Maybe I misread their statements like many misread mine, but there were a few posters who came right out and said, "Don't worry about the future." It's hard not to assume they meant there was nothing to worry about, or that they are the types of people who live in the moment. Maybe I'm wrong on those assumptions the same way others are wrong in saying we're "suffering", when nothing is further from the truth, for me anyway. I'm ecstatic right now, and I think having some higher concern about the future than I had 1-2 years ago in no way implies or suggests my current enjoyment is compromised or lessened in any way. We all want the Sox to win now and forever.

I'm not telling others to be concerned. I'm responding to those who wrongly label us concerned posters as "suffering". I'm responding to those, who a while back, seemed to be saying rebuilding the farm back up to a plus was something we should expect and felt even talking about how difficult that was going to be under the new system was "whining" or negating the thought that we have ability to enjoy what we have now, because we are somehow "suffering" over our long term outlook. If the team's concerns are the only thing that matters, why are any of us here voicing our opinions, concerns and beliefs? BTW, I think the team was concerned aout our long term future when they said no to Philly, but that's just my opinion.

One could argue (not me) back during the year up to when Cole Hamels was eventually traded, that a Betts & Bogey for Hamels would have been just what we needed for the "Papi window". We had just won a ring in 2013, so the base was there to add to and keep the "window" open for 2-3 more years. I'm not arguing against the Sale and Thornburg trades. I love them. I'm just saying I think striking a better balance would have made us very competitive now while still improving our extended outlook as well. I'm tickled to death with our 25 man roster and about 5-6 guys beyond that. We have a nice window. It's not easy building a team with a 3-5 year "window" and one could argue 2016 was within the window too as we had a good chance last year. That's really a 4-6 year window Ben & DD built. I hope we find a way to be highly competitive from 4-8 or more years beyond that. I'm concerned not obsessed. I'm a bit worried but not "suffering". It's winter. There's no baseball, so sometimes the talk diverts to our extended future.

I'm going to really enjoy the next 3-5 years and hopefully many years beyond that.

I don't see concern as suffering. Concern about the future kept us from trading Betts & Bogey for Hamels. That foresight and concern for the future created this current "Zen moment" or "3-5 year window".

Yes, that was overly dramatic, I agree, but if we truly believe the weakness is still great and is still here now, it's not an outlandish idea, unless we plan on drafting and then trading them away like Espi and Kopech, before they fail due to poor development in our farm system. I've heard some say that if Espi or Kopech thrive, we can't assume they would have here- already hedging the post-mortem debate on how these deals worked out 8 years down the road.

We will begin to see the affects of not having as many low-cost players in 2-3 years, but I agree, we should be highly competitive for 4 maybe 5 more years. It could last longer with some shrewd moves, extensions and draft/IFA picks. I'm not projection doomsday in 5-6 years. The way the rules have changed, it's going to be much harder for us to get guys like Moncada, Bogey, Devers, Espinoza, Raudes and Margot through international signings. By winning, we won't be getting top 10 draft picks like Kopech and Groome anymore. By facing heavier fines and even other strong penalties by going over the luxury limit or significantly over the limit, we may not be able to "buy our way" out of a mess, if we need to. With hefty arb raises and extensions on the near horizon, our ffront office and scouts may need to be near flawless to keep us highly competitive beyond 4 or 5 years. An argument could be made and supported that "now was the time" to hold onto at least the far-away prospects to offset the reality of just how tough it will be to acquire top young talent while winning and spending so much. Again, I'm fine with where we are, but I know we sacrificed a significant part of our extended future for this 3-4 or maybe 5 year window. I'm glad we didn't take this road from 2011-2015, or maybe we wouldn't have Betts, Bogey, JBJ and others right now.

The list speaks for itself. We traded away a massive amount of potential. 11 players, who at some point, reached the top 13 in the rankings.

I agreed that it "was the right time", but my position is that we didn't have to be so extreme or drastic about it. We probably could have traded some prospects earlier than we did (the "Papi window" has come and gone), but finishing in last place did help us get Kopech & Groome.

Well said. I could be wrong, but I have gotten a very distinct impression that some posters do not feel much concern about the difficulties that are ahead of us. I get that some personalities are more inclined to think about the here and now than the future. and some are somewhere in between, but the day will come when end up cutting a good talent loose based on the decisions we made this past year, or we'll have to settle on a lesser in house solution than we might have had otherwise, and that could be the difference between being highly competitive or not 4-8 years from now.

We've traded away 7 of out top 10 prospects in one year. (14 out of 21) That is dramatic and drastic. Just talking about concerns, we've been called whiners and implied doomsday apocalyptic naysayes. There can be a "middle ground" and I think that is what I had hoped for. I think Kimmi is pretty close to my position too. True, we could have traded Swihart, Devers and Groome too, so I guess you could call what we have done a "middle ground", but to me and others what we did was at least a little too far to one end of the spectrum. Personally, I'd take back the Pom and Kimbrel trades. With the money and some of prospects "saved" (I'd have traded Margot & Guerra) I would have acquired a not-so-glamorous closer and starter. I'd even feel much better without just the Pomeranz trade and maybe trying to sub Espi for Kopech in the Sale trade. I'm not upset with where we are now, but I'm not going to deny that our future will be impacted. Let's not deny that many posters said, "Don't worry; our farm can be rebuilt," or "We can spend more to fill future needs."

1. We have new people on the farm, so our lack of "developing pitchers" in the past is not a guarantee it will continue. 2. Maybe it was not lack of developing but instead poor scouting and draft picks. 3. If we suck so much with pitchers, should we never draft anymore pitchers? 4. Where's the guarantee that Kimbrel and Pomeranz reach their ceiling of expectations? Yes, I realize there's a much higher chance they do something good in the majoes with us that say, Espinoza or Kopech, but the same argument could have been made for trading Betts & Bogey for Cole Hamels. We had a "window" then too as Papi was nearing retirement. One could argue that window (2014-2016) was a better opportunity than this one. 5. I haven't seen one poster here who thinks we should not have made any prospect trades. It's not an absurd position to think that this is going too far: Sox prospects traded away in the past year (highest soxprospects.com): 1 Y Moncada 3 A Espinoza 3 M Margot 5 M Kopech 6 J Guerra 7 L Basabe 9 M Dubon 12 T Shaw (not a prospect when traded) 12 W Rijo 13 L Allen 13 P Light 18 L Basabe 20 C Asuaje 21 V Diaz 24 J Pennington 30 A Wilkerson 40 J Almonte I'm happy with our team right now. I would take back one or two moves, if we could, but overall, I'm happy. That being said, what we did was extreme. It has caused concern to me about our future ability to provide low cost players to our luxury tax budget. I want to keep as many of our young stars as possible, and having a steady influx of top young players is one reason this "3 year window" exists in the first place. I want more "windows" down the road too.

I don't understand how some posters can't at least just understand the concept that having less great prospects diminishes the chances that we will have enough low-cost quality players to off set the larger contracts down the road. Those of us with concerns understand the "win now" theory and argument. Also, there are many in the middle who feel some "win now" type deals were called for but maybe not so many or all. It's a valid position to hold.

Fact Denier.

Yeah, he did, but he can maybe make some adjustments. He's 21, but he's still raw. 16 HRs and 38 XBHs in just 334 ABs vs righties is something to write home about.

What's also very encouraging when looking at the AL WAR leaders on fangraphs is how many of our players placed in the top tier: 2) Betts 7.8 12) Pedey 5.2 16) JBJ 4.8 19) Bogey 4.7 (22) Ortiz 4.4) 34) Ramirez 2.6 4 in the top 20 and 5 in the top 35! Pitching: 1) Porcello 5.2 3) C Sale 5.2 7) Price 4.5 22) Wright 2.8 *31) Pomeranz 2.5 (half season) *NL ranking 3 of the top 7 and 5 of the top 30 or so in their league! That's 10 guys with a WAR over 2.5. (all top 70 batters+pitchers) in their league last year. 7 guys with a WAR over 4.5! Sox(7): Betts 7.8, Porcello 5.2, Sale 5.2, Pedroia 5.2, JBJ 4.8, Bogey 4.7, Price 4.5 Guardians (4): Lindor 6.3, Kluber 5.1, Kipnis 4.8, Ramirez 4.8 Cubs (3): Bryant 8.4, Rizzo 5.0, Hendricks 4.5 (Lester 4.3) Dodgers (3): Seager 7.5, Kershaw 6.5, Turner 5.8

I think there'll always be some hand wringing when 4 of the top 32 ranked prospects are traded away. Did I happen to say I'm so FREAKING HAPPY WE HAVE CHRIS SALE! CHRIS FREAKIN SALE!

Ockimey and Chatham could surprise. Both are scaled at 3-6 on soxprospects.com- the same as Dalbec. (Raudes is 2-5.)

Even though we are not deep after our top 3, we have Travis and non-prospect Swihart at ML ready status.

Baseball America's Top 100 is out... 1. Benintendi 2. Moncada 18. Devers 21. Espinoza 24. Margot 32. Kopech 43. Groome Wow! 5 Red Sox products in the top 24. That's 1 out of every 5! 7 in the top 43. That's just about 1/6th! The Yankees: 5. G Torres 39. C Frazier 45. B Rutherford 85. J Mateo 87. J Kaprielian 90. A Judge 91. J Sheffield The Cubs: 14: Eloy Jimenez 64. A Almonte 97. D Cease

Baseball America's Top 100 is out... 1. Benintendi 2. Moncada 18. Devers 21. Espinoza 24. Margot 32. Kopech 43. Groome Wow! 7 Red Sox products in the top 43. That's just about 1/6th!