moonslav59

Maybe, if all these pitchers signing minor league deals knew we had so many starter injuries, they might agree to sign with us.

Yes, we can all be thankful for that. I can see why he'd want to avoid big luxury tax costs, if possible, and the penalties for going $20M or more over are very punitive. The sky is NOT the limit.

I thought there was talk of these guys possibly being ready for the playoffs last year. This doesn't make sense.

You know one thing that bugs me about this sort of thing? We wait until ST'ing to find out he needs surgery, and the return clock is pushed back by 4-5 months. I'm not saying it's the case here, but I often wonder why it seems to happen so often. I know doctors sometimes think pro-longed rest will help, and it doesn't, but it's something that has me scratching my head from time to time.

Well, with ERod's tweak of his knee, the 5th and 6th starters might be 4th and 5th starters.

I'm not so sure; when he looks at the Pablo line on his expense report, he might cringe a little. (Also the Castillo line.)

I didn't mean you. You have been very clear about knowing it's not going to be easy down the road. If you go back and look at some of the posts made after the Sale trade, there were many responses that seemed to or blatantly said there was nothing to worry about concerning our long term future. Statements such as, "We will rebuild the farm by then," or "We can spend more," were thrown about. When questioned for further details on how we could do that, some of us were accused of whining, complaining, not wanting to trade any prospects, and more recently, "suffering". It was implied by some that we could not enjoy the present, because we had concerns about the future. I'm not trying to convince everyone to worry or be concerned. Some people just aren't wired that way, or they have other reasons for not being or voicing their concerns. I'm fine with that. I welcome a variety of opinions. My responses and statements have largely been to try and detail just how hard it is going to be to rebuild the farm under the new system for those who care to know. My position is one of trying to maintain a balance between the now and the later, and I think we went a little too far to one end of the spectrum. I'm not preaching doomsday, and I'm not calling for DD;'s head or even contemplating the idea. I love the team we have. The Sale trade is like a dream come true for me. It's the type of trade I have advocated for dozens of years. I'm not a worry wart, but I do have the future in mind often in my life and in my view on the Sox. My life goal was to retire at 45, so you can see where my mind is at, in general. I've had a lot of fun in my life that cost a lot of money, like 3 trips to Europe (one for 3 months), 3 trips to Brazil (2 months total), and many other shorter excursions, so I do believe in enjoying the here and now, too. It's not easy constructing a team that looks to be very highly competitive for 3-5 years. I think Ben's contribution has been a little short-changed and assumptions about what he might have done these last 2 years may be baseless. It's hard to find much wrong with what has been done, but I happen to think we went just a little too far with trading away prospects. I'd prefer we still had Espi, but I'm far from suffering over the fact that he's gone.

I think he'd still be on the team at $5M a year. It's not like we have a roster crunch at 25 or 40, and our number of other ML starter quality 3Bmen in the system is virtually nill. He might have been traded, if he was making $5M, but I don't think he'd have been DFA'd. (Not a certainty though)

From time to tome, I find myself wondering what we could be doing with Pablo's money right now. Maybe we're arguing semantics, but I suppose it could be called "worrying" about the signing...still I will say, I'm not suffering over it.

Cuban Left-Hander Osvaldo Hernandez Declared Free Agent By Mark Polishuk | February 12, 2017 at 5:54pm CDT Cuban left-hander Osvaldo Hernandez has been declared a free agent and can now sign with any team, MLB.com’s Jesse Sanchez reports (via Twitter). Several teams are already interested in the 18-year-old southpaw, including the Astros, Braves, Mets, Padres, Rangers, Reds and Red Sox. Due to Hernandez’s young age, his signing is subject to international bonus pools. (As a reminder of how the international signing system has been altered by the new collective bargaining agreement, check out this refresher from Baseball America’s Ben Badler). One factor that hasn’t changed is that teams who exceeded their international spending limits in the last two July 2 classes are still serving their previously-mandated penalties, i.e. limited to spending no more than $300K on any pool-eligible player. By waiting until this July 2 to sign, Hernandez could open his market up to teams like the Diamondbacks, Blue Jays, Angels, Rays, Yankees and Red Sox, as those six clubs would no longer be held to the $300K limit. Boston, it should be noted, can’t sign Hernandez at all until July 2 since the Sox were banned from signing any pool-eligible players whatsoever during this signing class. With significant interest in Hernandez’s services already, however, the young southpaw may not feel the need to wait. Also, since the old CBA’s rules are still in effect until the 2017-18 international signing period begins, Hernandez probably stands a better chance of scoring a richer contract now than he will when the stricter pool rules are instituted after July 2. Of the teams connected to Hernandez already, the Braves, Astros, Reds and Padres have already surpassed their bonus pools for the 2016-17 international signing period, so they would be paying a 100 percent tax on Hernandez’s signing bonus if a deal was reached. Hernandez didn’t appear on any of the top prospects lists from Baseball America, Fangraphs or MLB.com for the current international signing period, though BA’s list didn’t include players who weren’t already eligible to sign. The 18-year-old does already possess a fastball clocked between 92-94mph, according to Sanchez.

Fair enough, but I bet you aren't for trading Groome, Swihart, Travis, Owens and Rauses for Quintana to totally go for the here and now with a major blow to "the future".

The Braves traded for Brandon Phillips and got the Reds to pay $13M out of the $14M owed! The Reds got minor league pitchers Andrew McKirahan and Carlos Portuondo.

Some posters confuse concern with stressed or very stressed or try to guess what others' feelings and/ or intentions are.

Some posters clearly hinted this might be the case when they spoke of it just being potential we traded and nobody knows if the prospects ever will amount to anything. That was saying our future "might not be" impacted. Of course, they are right, but the chances are our future will be significantly affected by at least one of these trades over the last year is great.

I've never said or implied anyone is happy to get rid of prospects, but clearly there are posters who for a long time are much more willing to trade prospects than others. There are others on the other extreme who seem to never want to trade prospects. In my opinion, much of the debate about our long term future heated up when some posters seemed to be making light of just how difficult it was going to be to rebuild the farm to even close to what it was a year or two ago. Maybe I misread their statements like many misread mine, but there were a few posters who came right out and said, "Don't worry about the future." It's hard not to assume they meant there was nothing to worry about, or that they are the types of people who live in the moment. Maybe I'm wrong on those assumptions the same way others are wrong in saying we're "suffering", when nothing is further from the truth, for me anyway. I'm ecstatic right now, and I think having some higher concern about the future than I had 1-2 years ago in no way implies or suggests my current enjoyment is compromised or lessened in any way. We all want the Sox to win now and forever.

I'm not telling others to be concerned. I'm responding to those who wrongly label us concerned posters as "suffering". I'm responding to those, who a while back, seemed to be saying rebuilding the farm back up to a plus was something we should expect and felt even talking about how difficult that was going to be under the new system was "whining" or negating the thought that we have ability to enjoy what we have now, because we are somehow "suffering" over our long term outlook. If the team's concerns are the only thing that matters, why are any of us here voicing our opinions, concerns and beliefs? BTW, I think the team was concerned aout our long term future when they said no to Philly, but that's just my opinion.

One could argue (not me) back during the year up to when Cole Hamels was eventually traded, that a Betts & Bogey for Hamels would have been just what we needed for the "Papi window". We had just won a ring in 2013, so the base was there to add to and keep the "window" open for 2-3 more years. I'm not arguing against the Sale and Thornburg trades. I love them. I'm just saying I think striking a better balance would have made us very competitive now while still improving our extended outlook as well. I'm tickled to death with our 25 man roster and about 5-6 guys beyond that. We have a nice window. It's not easy building a team with a 3-5 year "window" and one could argue 2016 was within the window too as we had a good chance last year. That's really a 4-6 year window Ben & DD built. I hope we find a way to be highly competitive from 4-8 or more years beyond that. I'm concerned not obsessed. I'm a bit worried but not "suffering". It's winter. There's no baseball, so sometimes the talk diverts to our extended future.

I'm going to really enjoy the next 3-5 years and hopefully many years beyond that.

I don't see concern as suffering. Concern about the future kept us from trading Betts & Bogey for Hamels. That foresight and concern for the future created this current "Zen moment" or "3-5 year window".

Yes, that was overly dramatic, I agree, but if we truly believe the weakness is still great and is still here now, it's not an outlandish idea, unless we plan on drafting and then trading them away like Espi and Kopech, before they fail due to poor development in our farm system. I've heard some say that if Espi or Kopech thrive, we can't assume they would have here- already hedging the post-mortem debate on how these deals worked out 8 years down the road.

We will begin to see the affects of not having as many low-cost players in 2-3 years, but I agree, we should be highly competitive for 4 maybe 5 more years. It could last longer with some shrewd moves, extensions and draft/IFA picks. I'm not projection doomsday in 5-6 years. The way the rules have changed, it's going to be much harder for us to get guys like Moncada, Bogey, Devers, Espinoza, Raudes and Margot through international signings. By winning, we won't be getting top 10 draft picks like Kopech and Groome anymore. By facing heavier fines and even other strong penalties by going over the luxury limit or significantly over the limit, we may not be able to "buy our way" out of a mess, if we need to. With hefty arb raises and extensions on the near horizon, our ffront office and scouts may need to be near flawless to keep us highly competitive beyond 4 or 5 years. An argument could be made and supported that "now was the time" to hold onto at least the far-away prospects to offset the reality of just how tough it will be to acquire top young talent while winning and spending so much. Again, I'm fine with where we are, but I know we sacrificed a significant part of our extended future for this 3-4 or maybe 5 year window. I'm glad we didn't take this road from 2011-2015, or maybe we wouldn't have Betts, Bogey, JBJ and others right now.

The list speaks for itself. We traded away a massive amount of potential. 11 players, who at some point, reached the top 13 in the rankings.

I agreed that it "was the right time", but my position is that we didn't have to be so extreme or drastic about it. We probably could have traded some prospects earlier than we did (the "Papi window" has come and gone), but finishing in last place did help us get Kopech & Groome.

Well said. I could be wrong, but I have gotten a very distinct impression that some posters do not feel much concern about the difficulties that are ahead of us. I get that some personalities are more inclined to think about the here and now than the future. and some are somewhere in between, but the day will come when end up cutting a good talent loose based on the decisions we made this past year, or we'll have to settle on a lesser in house solution than we might have had otherwise, and that could be the difference between being highly competitive or not 4-8 years from now.

We've traded away 7 of out top 10 prospects in one year. (14 out of 21) That is dramatic and drastic. Just talking about concerns, we've been called whiners and implied doomsday apocalyptic naysayes. There can be a "middle ground" and I think that is what I had hoped for. I think Kimmi is pretty close to my position too. True, we could have traded Swihart, Devers and Groome too, so I guess you could call what we have done a "middle ground", but to me and others what we did was at least a little too far to one end of the spectrum. Personally, I'd take back the Pom and Kimbrel trades. With the money and some of prospects "saved" (I'd have traded Margot & Guerra) I would have acquired a not-so-glamorous closer and starter. I'd even feel much better without just the Pomeranz trade and maybe trying to sub Espi for Kopech in the Sale trade. I'm not upset with where we are now, but I'm not going to deny that our future will be impacted. Let's not deny that many posters said, "Don't worry; our farm can be rebuilt," or "We can spend more to fill future needs."