moonslav59

Fire the GM!!!! This is totally unacceptable!

Except bashing over impending cliffs is off limits.

I don't want to trade Devers and Groome, but if I do, I'm wanting Beltre or Donaldson over an OF'er with more ups and downs than a yo-yo. He had a nice 4 year stretch from 2010 to 2013, but he's too unpredictable for me to want to trade top prospects for. 2014 .654 2015 .729 2016 .815 (.685 with the Mets after the trade) 2017 .872 (his career best at age 30) No Thanks.

Okay, sorry for going a little over board with my response. I'm just not even close to thinking about benching or platooning HRam. Maybe his injury is worse than we know, but and he won't get much better vs RHPs the rest of the way, He had a bad April (.719), which actually wasn't horrible. He's been significantly over .800 since may 1st. He's one of our hottest hitters. He has a long history of ups and downs, but more ups than downs. Some of his "ups" have been doozies! After Betts, JBJ, Bogey and Pedey, he's the next guy I'd avoid benching or platooning. I'm fine with platooning Beni & Young. Moreland & Travis. Lin & Marrero. Vaz & Leon. But not HRam. He hit .855 in his last 20 games and 1.017 in his last 11 games. I'm not sure Bruce will do as well as HRam here on out, and even if he does, it probably won't be by much. I prefer to upgrade at our weakest links not one of our strongest with a player who had a 2 year stretch of futility just 2 years ago. Red Sox hottest hitters; Last 14 days 1.017 HRam .988 Pedey .975 Marrero .950 Betts .941 Beni .931 JBJ .886 Lin .753 Young .561 Bogey .426 Moreland Last 28 days .935 JBJ .892 Beni .871 Lin .855 HRam .797 Pedey .790 Bogey .618 Moreland If we got Bruce, I'd be more inclined to bench or platoon Moreland and force HRam to play 1B. Yeah, the 23 HRs by Bruce are nice, but he won't come cheap. He plays the wrong position. He's been great against RHPs (.945 this year), but HRam has done well vs righties in his career. FYI Bruce OPS last 14 days .804 last 28 days .830 Both worse than HRam.

I'm thinking that if Devers hasn't been called up already, I doubt they'll give him a chance in September. Is he going to magically become ML ready with 6 more weeks of play on the farm? I had Lin as our 10th string 3Bman to start the season. He got a shot over Devers. I had Marrero on my short list of DFA candidates, if we needed a 40 man roster spot opened up. He got a chance over Devers. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised, if theyc alled up Dominguez or gave Pablito another chance before handing 3B to Devers, even in September. I'm surprised he's still on the farm, but I'm not complaining. I trust DD & Co. and knowing when the right time is to give him his shot.

"Just win, baby!" A lot can be forgiven and forgotten once a ring is secured.

It's a tiny sample size to begin with and now you're splitting it into two teenie tiny sample sizes. The guy has 5 freakin PAs vs LHPs! Also, I'm not sure I'd call him "traditionally" better vs LHPs, and besides, I'd prefer he was better vs RHPs, so Marrero could play vs only LH'd starters. Lin's splits 2017 AA (He never did well enough to even be promoted to AAA!) .870 vs LHPs (only 35 ABs) .870 vs RHPs (124 ABss, which looks close to a platoon situation with the PAs differential, and if you look at 2016, you'd see why they platooned him.) 2016 .429 vs LHPs (77 ABS) .620 vs RHPs (295 ABs) I don't see what you see.

I don't get the fascination with Bruce. We have 3 OF'ers and a healthy 4th OF'er that is showing signs of life. Bruce is not going to oust HRam at DH, plus we may want to have Young DH vs LHPs, if HRam can ever play 1B again. If we're getting an impact bat, and I'm not even sure Bruce isn't due for one of his long streaks of futility, it should be 3B (rental) or possibly 1B or Catcher. Those are the only areas we are struggling at right now or project to going forward.

Shaw had a few stretches of showing he could hit in the minors. Lin has never showed life until this year. Lin's been in professional ball for 6 years. Sometimes, very rarely, a player will do significantly better in the majors than in the minors, but I seem to only remember okay hitters doing better- not bad hitters doing great or even .750ish. Shaw had an .803 minor league OPS. He had numerous stretches of .900+ ball: 2012 A+ (423 PAs- not a tiny sample size): .957 ..... (50 XBHs in 99 games) 2013 Fall League (73 PAs) 1.157 2014 AA (208 PAs) .954 .....(20 XBHs in 47 games ) That was 3 years in a row that he had a significant hot streak. Lin has a career .638 minor league OPS. He was apples to oranges compared to Shaw. Until this season, Lin's best minor league stretch was .698 in 2015 at A+ ball (307 PAs) He followed that with a .525 Fall league OPS in 54 PAs and a .580 OPS in 2016 at AA (411 PAs- not a tiny sample size). Look, I'm rooting for Lin like all hell. It would be a great story for a player with a sub .640 OPS in 6 years on the farm to have an extended, productive streak or career in the majors. It could happen, but basing your plans on it happening is a huge risk to take. I suppose we can try a waiver-wire deal, if Lin flops in August. I suppose we could call up Devers, against what appears to be the team's current organizational judgment. I'd be okay, if we don't trade for a 3Bman, but we should look hard to find a deal without a massive overpay. If there's none out there, I'm okay with rolling the dice on the circus carousel that has been the Sox 3B position since Beltre (and even he was just here for one great year).

Frazier has had worse second half splits every single season of his career. He's off to a slower than normal start. That doesn't bode well for the second half. I still see him as an upgrade, but he too, might be way too costly.

I don't either. That's why I asked what people thought of what I put out there. Too little? Too much? Just right?

You're joking. The sox farm in 2004 was a major force in 2007. We traded top prospects HRam and A Sanchez for Beckett & Lowell. Other top prospects in 2004 were Youkilis, Moss, Lester, Shoppach, Pedroia & Papelbon.

HRam is not going to be benched. Plus, he's hitting RHPs better than LHPs. Jay Bruce is not the answer. Lin at lead off would be a big mistake.

On the farm... ERod 6 IP 6 H 1 ER 0 BB 7 K Pablo 0 for 4- show him the door. Chavis his a two-run HR (his 4th in AA). Devers went 1 for 4 in the Futures game. (Note: Moncada went 0-2/Dubon 1-3.) Owens went 5 IP 2 H 0 ER but 5 BBs!

I don't really think Lin has "proven" anything. My main line-up issue is not about where Lin hits. Betts leading off is a concern, but to me, the biggest issue is Moreland staying in the 4 slot. He's done a great job for us over the first 2 months, but he was never meant to bat 4th. Now that JBJ, Beni and HRam are doing better, I feel it's time to move Moreland down to 6th or 7th. Even 5th is better than 4th. He's playing hurt. I'm not "dissing" him, but others are hitting better than him now, and others have longer histories of success. If we keep Betts 1st, I'd go with... 1) Betts 2) Pedey 3) Bogey 4) JBJ 5) HRam 6) Beni-Young 7) Moreland/Travis 8) Lin-Marrero 9) Vaz-Leon

I wonder what they'd want for both? I'm sure they'd want more, if they pay part of Prado/Phelps' deals. Contracts: Prado: 3 years/$40M (2017-19) AVV= $13.33M (Cost this year at deadline ~$4.5M 17:$11.5M, 18:$13.5M, 19:$15M Phelps: 1 year/$4.6M , AVV= $4.6M (Cost at deadline ~$1.6M + 1 more arb year Total AVV cost towards luxury tax this year would be about $6M. I think we could squeeze under the tax and reset the tax with this deal, but if we need Miami to pay a little to get us under, that should be doable. Would Miami take Chavis, Lakins, Beeks and Ockimey? Would you give all that? At least both are not one-year rentals, but with Devers projected to join the team in 2018, and Holt maybe ready for a comeback, we may not want/need Prado next year. Prado does provide 4th OF'er coverage as Young goes to free agency next year, though.

Red Sox Interested In Martin Prado-David Phelps Package https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/red-sox-interested-in-martin-prado-david-phelps-package.html Phelps is a30 year old RH'd RP'er. He has a 1.256 WHIP in 43 IP this year. He has a 9.6 K/9 rate. He was better last year with a 1.142 WHIP and an 11.8 K/9 rate in 87 IP.

Mine goes limp at the thought.

Fair enough. I'd actually prefer 1 ring and 3 last place finishes to 3-4 "close but no cigars", but I can understand those who prefer staying highly competitive for a 4 year window.

You don't need to have all the details and accurate projections to know that the more good prospects you keep, the better chance you have at avoiding cliffs and valleys. It's a delicate balance between the here and now, the 3-4 year "window" and the extended systemic plan. True, there's nothing we can do, but the GM can do a lot to change the future. A ring or two will help ease any ill feelings, if we do indeed hit a cliff afterwards, but if it does reach a point where it's impossible to avoid thinking about it, it will probably be too late. I can see DD being roasted alive 4-5 years from now by some of the very fans that praised the moves he made to bring it on. He better win a ring or two, or he'll be treated worse than Ben has been (assuming we eventually go off a cliff).

I doubt Lin gets traded. He's not the guy other GMs are scouting. You're right about GMs not tipping their hands, but I doubt we go after even a journeyman starter, unless DD knows ERod's injury is too iffy to chance it. He can always wait for a waiver deal for that, if needed. I think we look at a cheap upgrade for 3B, and if it's not there, we'll go with Lin/Marrero, at least until Devers joins us in September.

Well said, hugh. I'm surprised at how some seem either not to care or are willing to just believe that since we found ways in the past, we can and will continue to do so, despite the strict new rules and regulations. Some penalties now involve more than just a financial tax. We can lose the ability to add young talent by going $20M or more over the limit. It's hard to imagine us doing that, but it's hard to imagine us keeping this team together beyond 2019 without doing so. I hope our projections are terribly wrong. We have drafted some great players in the later rounds and had some good luck with international signings, but even some of those acquisitions were as a result of our financial advantage that is no longer so easy to exert.

I'm glad you guys were looking to 2018 and beyond, instead of picking up an ace last winter. I might not be so glad next year.

We're not straining. We're not obsessed. It's hard to build up a farm with low draft picks. It's hard to trade assets for young talent when one is in a "window". It's not impossible, but assuming an adequate rebuild is a near foregone conclusion is ignoring the tough realities of today's baseball system. I liked our draft this year. our international signings looked great. I feel better than I did a few months ago, but we still have a long way to go and we will need "replenishment as early next year (Devers for Pablo, Travis for Moreland and maybe Swihart for Young). After that, it gets highly skeptical.

Good time for Pedey to flash some power.