moonslav59

I doubt his value diminished much at all.

If we trade Bogey for prospects need to get Stanton. My idea is not to replace him with Lin/Marrero/Hernandez. I'd sign Cozart and Duda. I'm not "for" trading Bogey, but if that's what it takes to get Stanton, then I'd strongly consider it. Since Stanton plays the OF, trading JBJ and his 3 years of control would probably bring back better prospects than Bogey's 2 years of control, so that may make more sense.

JD games played vs EE is a complete mismatch. JD: only over 123 games once in his career. 123, 158, 120 & 119 the last 4. EE:Never under 128 games in the 6 years before becoming a FA last winter. 151, 142, 128, 146 & 160 the prior 5. EE can probably play 1b as well as JD plays the OF.

Was allowing 26 less runs also s***ing the bed? 668 runs allowed would have been 2 runs from leading the AL last year. We traded for Sale, instead of replacing Papi. Yes, our offense was a let down. They failed to meet expectations by a lot. I'll agree the offense "s*** the bed" as compared to 2016, but not the team as a whole. Finishing 5th out of 15 teams is not really horrible, but when compared to 2016, it is.

We had identical 93-69 records in 2016 and 2017 not 2 less wins. Counting the playoffs, we did 1 win better in 2017 than with Papi in 2016.

Again, why waste a year's value of a vet for one year, when they will not be competing? No extra fans will come, because JBJ is playing for a year before being traded. Any vet they get should be flipped immediately, of a 3 team trade can be organized. I'm not sure about what Jeter will be looking for: ML ready prospects, 2-4 years away prospects or both. I seriously doubt he looks for a player that is a star already, unless it's someone like Beni who can be part of a 3-5 year plan. JBJ and Bogey will be free agents by the time the Marlins could conceivably be contenders.

Bogey has the 4th highest SS WAR over the last 3 years combined. GMs do not significantly devalue a player of his age due to one "off year" that may have been affected by an injury. Bogey would likely bring more than a blue chipper. He has 2 arb years left and many teams could use an upgrade at SS. Waiting for 2019 wastes one of the years left in "the window".

lol.

JBJ or Bogey could be traded for a blue chip prospect (or two) that has separated himself already, then sent to Miami. Add 2-3 from Groome, Chavis, Mata, Houck and Flores and I think the Marlins say yes. Maybe someone else offers better. Like I said, I could be wrong on what it takes, but Stanton's salary puts a huge hurt on whoever gets him.

The one thing your kids showed was that they weren't ready to lead in 2017. With Papi gone and the onus on them, they s*** the bed. If 93 wins is s***ing the bed, then what of teams with less wins? You must add an elite bat to take some pressure off Betts. I totally agree. With maybe as much as $40M to spend this winter, I think DD makes a serious deal or signing to attempt to solve both problems: power clean-up hitter & the leadership we need. I'll be surprised if we miss out on Stanton, JD Martinez or Moustakas (or someone as good as Moose).

Why can't he? He might lose all 4 fans he has now? Marlin fans are used to cleaning house. Jeter will take the best package offered that fits into his plan and timetable. I seriously doubt he's looking to compete in 2018. To me, the question is more about wanting prospects projected to be ML ready by 2019ish (Chavis, Beeks, Houck or Shawaryn) of by 2021ish (Groome, Mata, Flores, Scherff or Brannen). He may want a mix. If he gets JBJ, he'll flip him before 2018 anyways. The death of Fernandez ruined any chance the Marlins had with such a limited budget. Jeter knows that and will plan to have a team "come together" by a certain year. He's not dumb.

Stanton's salary will keep many teams away, and it is known to everyone the Marlins are looking to dump $25M next year. I could be wrong on my estimate of what it will take to get Stanton, and the Sox can afford to take on 100% of Stanton's salary. I just mentioned HRam as a possibility, and I'd add more prospects, if they took him. (I don't think he's a total loss of 2018.) I'd be willing to offer more than JBJ, Chavis and Groome, but I doubt it takes more. My guess is Jeter might look more long term, like a 5 year plan, and might be more interested in Mata, Scherff and Flores than Chavis and/or JBJ.

I realize we are bound to have injuries in 2018, and some might be to Price and better players than who got hurt in 2017. I get that. I do not think that even taking that into consideration, it's unreasonable to expect more from our returning players. While Betts, Bogey, Bradley and Beni all declined from 2016 to 2017, at their ages, I think it is more likely they hit closer to 2016 (or better) than 2017. That could be a huge gain. Devers could do worse than 2017, but by playing 158 games instead of 58, we could see a big gain at 3B. I'm not expecting a gain from our post-prime guys, but there's only two of them (HRam & Pedey). It's possible we get more from one or both in 2017 than 2017, since HRam was off and Pedey missed time. Vaz could decline and Leon is a crap shoot. We are likely to replace Moreland & Young with someone better. I'm probably higher on Wright than others, but I think he's better than the 25 starts from Fister, Johnson, Velazquez and Kendrick. I know Price could pitch less in 2018 than 2017, but there's hope he stays healthy. Porcello is a crap shoot. Pom is looking more solid. ERod is hurt. Sale has been a horse. Our pen has a lot of returning arms. I can't imagine it being worse, but anything can happen. Maybe I'm a homer. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I do feel that, overall, our returning players will do significantly better next year. Age Returning Player 20 Devers 22 Beni 23 (Lin & Travis) 24 Betts, Bogey, ERod (DL) (Taylor) 25 (Swihart) 26 Vaz, Maddox (Johnson & Marrero 27 JBJ, C Smith, Barnes & Scott 28 Sale, Pom, Porcello, Workman, Leon (Velazquez) 29 Kimbrel, Kelly & Holt 31 Price 33 Pedey & HRam Looking at just the ages, it's hard not to expect improvement, especially when so many had "off seasons" in 2017. Of course, if our new free agents end up like HRam and Pablo then we'll probably be a wild card team next year.

My guess is nobody offers more than JBJ, Groome and Chavis, so I'd start with an offer of Groome, Chavis, Beeks & Haley. Maybe we can add Castillo or HRam to lessen the salary hit. (We could pay some of their salary.) We'd then have to give more... HRam, JBJ, Groome, Chavis, Beeks and Flores for Stanton. We'd actually save money in 2018 as HRam and JBJ will make more than Stanton, and we'd save on the luxury tax. This would allow us to get Stanton plus one from JD Martinez or Mustakas and a guy like Duda, Cobb or even Cozart. I realize the marlins want to cut $25M in 2018, and this does not help, but they could flip JBJ and maybe dump HRam for a partial loss.

You guys need a DH and have plenty of money to spend. We'll give you HRam and Rusnet Castillo for 3-4 of these guys. (LOL)

Hip-hip-hurrah!

In my opinion, it's a 3 year window, as Henry should be willing to spend heavily in 2020 to keep us near the top.

I have no issues with Yankee fans on this site. I was just saying I think the two threads are too similar and should be combined.

I was against the Vic trade for one major reason: the 3 years considering his age and likelihood of decline. It's hard to crap on the deal, since he was a major factor in 2013, but his 3 year numbers certainly did not merit the contract.

I don't disagree. I was just addressing your apparent sugar-coating the defensive differential between Beni & JBJ. I agree Beni is a better total package, has more upside, is less costly and has more years of team control. He's not better on defense in CF or in RF. Someday, he may get close to JBJ on D, but I doubt he ever equal his defensive skill set.

I seriously doubt it ever is the deciding factor for a future free agent, if we end up nearly platooning Duda with HRam next season, and HRam does not vest. Now, if HRam does well next year, and we limit his PAs, then you have a point, but HRam has sucked for 2 of the last 3 years and giving him about 60 less PAs than he had this year is not some radical smack down on HRam. Duda is way better vs RHPs.

No matter how you shake it our, Beni is a defensive downgrade to JBJ. If Betts plays CF, we lose big time in RF with Beni vs Betts. If Beni plays CF, like I feel he is better than him playing in RF, we step down on D in CF, even if Beni ends up being above average on D in CF. I'm not against trading JBJ, even though he is one of my favorite Sox players.

I agree. I will say that the Dodger dump was a great deal. It wasn't about Webster and de la Rosa. It was about dumping CC and Beckett. AGon petered out afterwards, so even that dump was worth getting nothing in return but the spending space needed to sign Vic and Naps and a ring in 2013. At the time of the 2nd sell-off, I had hoped we went more towards ML ready prospects (like ERod, Hembree & Escobar) than vets (like Cespedes, Kelly & Craig), and my hope was we'd re-sign Miller. We tried to play it "halfway" and that was my criticism then, too. The win in 2013 made it hard to continue being too critical, but we felt it afterwards. Cashman has made some great deals in the past 3-4 years. No doubt better than Ben and DD.

...and a healthy Wright to a lesser degree.

As of right now, if you had to choose from one of tehse plans, which would it be? (assuming all 3 winter plans that stay within the estimated $40M spending budget): A) Sign JD Martinez ($22M x ? years) Sign Lucas Duda ($8M/1year) to play 1B/ some DH (keep HRam from vesting his option) Sign SP'er to $10M (Hellickson/Holland type) Sign Mike Moustakas ($25M x ? years) & move Devers to 1B Sign Lucas Duda ($8M/1year) to play DH/ some 1B (keep HRam from vesting his option) Sign SP'er to $7M (Fister type) C) Sign Alex Cobb ($17M x ? years) Sign Lucas Duda ($8M/1year) to play 1B/DH (keep HRam from vesting his option) Sign Eduardo Nunez ($7M x ? years, assuming recovered from surgery) Sign 4th OF'er like Carlos Beltran ($7M x 1 yr)