moonslav59

Look how long it took Pablo to actually be "done here".

That's one game, and you never know what might have happened, if just one thing changes in a game. Nobody can prove we have lost a game or not lost a game based on conjecture or "what ifs" something different happened in a game. Note: we've had multiple games with multiple blunders. It's almost impossible to not have lost a games based on a blunder (or two or three).

I'm not talking about aggressiveness or even slight overaggressieness. I'm talking forgetting about how many outs there are, not running a 1/3 of the way to the next base on pop flies to the OF, running to 3B with a ball hit to the IF in front of you. I'm not talking about 3-4 blunders all year. I'm sure there are at least 15. Sure, some had nothing to do with a win or loss, but I seriously doubt no games have been lost by a running mistake. Defensive blunders have certainly led to several losses. hard to prove, since the "what if" argument kills any conjecture, but the sheer magnitude of the mental mistakes we've made on defense have cost us more than just one game. My guess is 3-6. Add 1 to 3 for running blunders, and I'm sure we've lost at least 4 games to mental mistakes. And no, I haven't documented every tiny mental blunder, but I feel like I'm being conservative with the number 4.

I can't go with the idea of adding nothing more to the 1B mix than Travis/Swihart. I wouldn't even be okay with bringing Moreland back or signing Morrison and hoping lightening strikes twice for him. If we added a DH like JD Martinez, maybe going with HRam and Travis/Swihart at 1B would be acceptable, but I'd still like to do better.

Kimmi, I'm surprised. Just because our base running has netted us one win, we might have been +3 or 4 without running blunders alone. -3 + 4 = +1

Show me. I've provided data that point the other way. For you to be right, I really would like just one example of where terrible baserunning or boneheaded plays cost us even one game, let along several. To me runs scored for and against a team are all about hitting and pitching and occasionally defense, but rarely boneheadedness. I have said the same to moonslav, who has yet to identify just that one game, let alone several. I did respond.. I said no game is won or lost on one play, so the question is worthless. That being said, here's one: the game where Holt held onto the ball as the winning run crossed the plate. Sure, argue, maybe he doesn't get him anyways, but it was a close play, even after he hesitated, There are countless close games we lost where a bonehead play led to a run scored or maybe have prevented us from scoring one or more. Stop pretending no games have been lost by mental mistakes. We've made 343 this year. It's impossible for none to have mattered.

Let 'em peak early. We're saving our peak for October.

Plus, $31M man of nowhere (Price).

Agreed. Unless we trade for a 1Bman, there's no FA 1bman equal to Moustakas. Donaldson would likely cost much less than Votto or Stanton.

I've never said base-running has been a weakness of this team, and none of these numbers capture how many bonehead plays we've made on the basepaths and playing field on defense. Taking an extra base and stealing bases is separate from running into out on account of a mental lapse. If those numebrs somehow account for the mistakes, then I wonder what they'd loom like with just a normal amount of boneheadedness.

Even if he hits well next year, I don't want him back in 2019. I remember saying before last year that even if HRam hit .900 in 2016, we should trade him. I wish I stuck to my guns, and the Sox dumped him last winter. If we go with Moreland and Travis next year, HRam will and should get the PAs needed to vest- baring injury.

Yeah, a look of not even being interested. (to me)

I don't know,we seem to be taken advantage of by a lot of stiffs, unproven pitchers and mediocre journeymen. I almost feel like we've done better than expected against the best pitchers.

I was waiting for this...LOL. I've never denied a big part of this game is not quantifiable.

It's not just missing joy to me, but your point is well taken. I'm not discounting the loss of Papi as a major factor in the lessening signs of joy. I just don't seem to see (or feel, I guess) that this team has a strong will to win. Grit. Determination. Whatever you want to call it. It's just a gut feeling I've felt watching these guys all year. That being said, I've never thought watching guys break their bats or throw things in the dugout in disgust after making is the type of positive energy that contributes to a team's well-being. To me, that is not the "fire and desire" I like to see. I'm talking more about the dugout seeming more alive and caring about what's going on in the game. They seem distracted or uninterested. I could be wrong about my perception. I understand that. Trying to read body language, thoughts and feelings from a TV set has severe limitations. I've only seen 7 games live. I hope I'm wrong, and I'm not really sure that even if I'm right, "fire and desire" is really important, if the the skill is there. Maybe a few big wins when crunch time really comes can instill some fire. Maybe the desire is already there, and I just can't see it. Maybe desire can be acquired in a short time. I'll settle for a ring from a bunch of drones over a lot of excitement and being swept in a playoff series again.

I disagree. I think teams often don't put in a claim on a player they know will be pulled back, unless a trade offer is made.

A lot depends on who we pick up. If it's just a Moreland type, I doubt he and Travis will steal enough PAs from HRam to disallow the vesting option, unless we strategically make sure he doesn't by playing worse players. If we acquire a big slugger 1Bman and maybe Nunez, I think we can squeeze HRam out of his PAs legitimately.

What interesting about our second half WAR numbers is this... Our top 4 everyday player WAR guys (Nunez, Vaz, Devers and Beni) were not with the Sox all last year. 3 were added to the 25 man roster after July 2016. 2 of our top 6 second half WAR pitchers were not playing for the Sox last year (Fister and Workman). That makes 6 of our top 12 second half OPS not being on the 25 man roster before July 2016.

I used the WAR numbers from fangraphs. Some where on their site, they explain how they get their numbers . The Nunez numbers include his production from SF. Yes, WAR is greatly affected by the size of the sample size. I wish they would post a WAR per 150 game number next to their overall WAR. Second half WAR numbers may help show player trends to your liking... (80+ PAs with Sox only numbers) 1.0 Nunez 0.9 Vaz 0.8 Devers 0.7 Beni 0.6 Betts 0.4 Pedey 0.1 JBJ 0.0 Leon -0.1 Bogey & Moreland -0.5 HRam -0.7 Holt 2.2 Sale 1.2 Fister 0.9 Pom & Erod 0.7 Kimbrel 0.4 Workman & Price 0.3 Abad & Barnes 0.2 Kelly, Maddox, Jonson, Velazquez 0.1 Taylor, Hembree, Smith 0.0 Porcello, Moreland, Elias -0.1 Martin -0.2 Reed

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it. It's just my opinion.

Lack of energy, excitement, or as I called it, "fire and desire". We look lackluster. (Note: you don't need "fire" to win, but "desire" helps. I also realize that this has just been my own personal perception.) This and the lack of fundamentals are my two major points against JF. I don't have any big beefs with his in-game decisions, and although his line-ups are not what I would create, we've scored about as much as we could expect with all but Vaz in serious decline from last year.

-0.8 I only listed players with 150+ PAs. Holt has 122. Project him to 610 PAs at this same rate, and he'd be at -4.0 for the year.

It's been a season long pattern, in my opinion.

I wouldn't have even brought it up. I didn't think it was any big deal. I've already made my point about my perception that we have been lacking "fire and desire". I only brought up the team's reaction to JBJ's big HR as a response to this... "...All you need are a couple of nice wins to return to the right frame of mind and look energetic as all get out. ... ...This sure didn't look like a bunch of disheartened losers to me. Heck, I'm seeing a pretty decent pulse ... I'm not upset over the lack of energy, especially after the 19 inning night before, but I will respond to anyone trying to make it sound like this team is jacked-up with excitement. Excitement doesn't win games, thankfully.

I see it that way too. Take away the fundamental mistakes alone to a point where we're about average, and we'd have a much better run differential and a few more wins. I'm not even addressing the in-game decision making.