moonslav59

Great point, and if you watched the play yesterday, ERod was way off the mound towards 3B and leaning that way, when he had to change momentum and run to 1B. Yes, other lefties are able to cover better than ERod and Pom, but it's not an easy thing to do. I hope Cora has been addressing this issue.

I see your point and feel that way a lot myself, but I guess I feel that since the teams assembled before the 2012, 2014 and 2015 seasons looked competitive, although maybe not highly competitive, I wasn't so much in blame the GM mode, when things went south so soon (or not so soon as with 2012). I've said Ben deserves a big chunk of the blame for those 3 horrific seasons, but I guess I view his overall job differently. As for looking forward, to me, that also includes the GM building a farm that will keep us in it every year going forward. I think Ben did a great job in that area, so that helps balance the bad years he was part of.

Not that these tiny sample sizes mean much, but here are the run totals in games JD has not played: 7 (Apr 2) 7 (Apr 20) 1 (May 27) 0 (June 8) 4 (July 2) 19 runs in 5 games= 3.8 per game. I'm convinced JD has made a significant impact on the hitters around him in the line-up. I'm not sure if it's more than all the other factors combined, like new coaches & managers and improved health by several hitters like Betts, Bogey $ Moreland, but I do think it mattered. If you look at Betts, Bogey & Moreland last year, they all seemed to be doing very well before their injuries. Beni has taken off. One could argue he's a year older and wiser, but JD's influence seems to have made a major impact on his performance. One could also look at Betts and Boegy when Papi was still here mashing. They had some down periods then as well, so it wasn't just 2017. Is Betts' .812 and .803 OPS with Papi all that much better than the .803 in 2017 without Papi? Bogey had worse years when Papi was here. He was at .660 in 2014 and not much better than 2017 (.746) in the two years prior (.776 and .802). Certainly, one could argue his injuries were enough to drop him from .776 and .802 to .746. I've never been a big believer in a great hitter having a major impact on improving those around him, but I'm thinking it matters more than I previously believed it did.

I want us to compete every year, too, but once I we got that first ring in 2004, I got spoiled. The 2007 ring just made me crave rings more than just about anything else. No, we shouldn't have to suffer through 3 last places to win a ring while spending as much or more than anyone else, but after the 30+ seasons of despair, maybe I'm a little more forgiving than most for owners and GM who try to put good teams (on paper) out there every year, even if it doesn't always work out every year. 3 out of 4 is gross. It's horrible, and I suffered as much as anybody here, don't get me wrong. However, that ring in 2013 was a beaut. I'm thankful to Ben for that and for providing the building blocks for a long future of high competitiveness, which to me, is actually the best way to build a long term successful team. DD took that value and shot for a 4-5 year window. I'm not disliking what he did, but no doubt, he has capitalized on Ben's foundation and made a big signing just about equal in value to HRam + pablo that hasn't worked out too well either. Let's assume DD gets us 4 division championships, 3 early exits and 1 WS loss, is that better than what Ben gave us after factoring in how each left the farm after 4 years? I say, at worst, it's pretty close to even, but I'll take what Ben gave us, maybe because I lived through 3+ decades of pain and frustration.

Of course a team spending so much money should compete every year. I've never denied the last place finishes sucked, and 3 in 4 years is awful. I'm able to get the point being discussed and add my own slant to it, aren't I? I suffered through countless heartbreaks over several decades. I actually was known to say on several occasions, "I'd gladly suffer through 10 last place finishes for just one ring!" I meant it. I wasn't alone in those feelings, and we were a pretty big spender almost every year I've been a Sox fan. We weren't the spenders the Yanks were, but we were often 2nd to 5th in spending. I'm not thrilled with 3 last place finishes and one ring for a 4 year stretch, but I'd take that over any 4 year stretch from 1971 to 2003- hands down- no debate. This doesn't make Ben look like a genius, and I've never claimed he was. My position has been that he did a lot to move the team in the right direction despite the gaffs and massive under performances by many of his players in those 3 bad years. Many of the players doing poorly in those 3 years were the same ones doing very well in 2011, 2013 and/or 2016. I'm not calling those years snake bitten and trying to excuse Ben from all blame, but I find myself trying to show that he wasn't as bad as some seem to make him out to be. He made many good moves that seem to be largely ignored by some who, at times, seem to imply that all he did was draft badly, sign badly and trade badly. We don't win in 2013 without Uehara, the Dodger dump trade that allowed us to sign Vic, naps, Drew and others, and we don't get many of the players DD has acquired without the guys Ben acquired for him to unload. He deserves much of the blame, but he also deserves some of the credit for our recent winning teams, despite no ring yet for DD & the Sox.

Oooops. Still, Ben has a ring since before the last Yankee ring.

When have the Yankess won a WS since 2001? They haven't even made the WS since 2003. Look, the 3 last places sucked. Ben should get the blame for some of most of that, but the teams he put on the field seemed to be better than they played- kind of like last year's Sox under performances by just about everyone. The 2012, 2014 and 2015 didn't look that much different than the 2013 ring team at the start of each season. Blaming Ben is justified, but a heck of a lot of players came up far short of expectations. The results are what they are, and last places finishes suck more than 4th or 3rd place finishes, but maybe my Sox fandom from the early 70's to 2003 has influenced my outlook. I'd have died and gone to heaven for just 1 ring, even if it was surrounded by 10 years of last place finishes.

Better health for both him and Bogey might be the major reason.

Lets look at the records at the end of the year.

I totally agree, and to put up that margin of dominance over the next closest pitcher is a good way to compare pitchers from different eras. The fact that he dominated so much during a "hitting era" makes his numbers more than astounding. Add to that, the fact that he pitched in a hitter's park. His 7 year period is also probably the best 7 year stretch (1997-2003) in MLB history, when you compare his numbers to the league norm or his closest competitors. His 5 year stretch from 1999-2003 might not even be debatable. To me, it was clearly the best of all time. 1999 to 2003 American League Pedro Martinez ERA: 5.03, 5.09, 4.67, 4.57 & 4.66 P.M.: 2.07, 1.74, 2.39, 2.26 & 2.22 WHIP: 1.49, 1.49, 1.40, 1.37 & 1.38 P. M. : 0.93, 0.74, 0.93, 1.10, 0.92, 1.04 K/BB: 1.68, 1.65, 1.59, 1.58 & 1.54 P.M.: 8.50, 8.88, 6.53, 5.98, & 4.38 Pedro only pitched 116 IP in 2001, but he had the top 4 fWARs from 1999-2003: 11.6 in 1999 9.4 in 2000 7.4 in 2003 & 2004. His 2001 fWAR of 5.5 in just 116 IP placed 17th! Halladay had 3 seasons in the top 8. Mussina had 4 seasons in the top 12. Those were the closest. All 5 of Pedro's seasons in the period saw him lead the AL in FIP. I'll leave it to others to prove I'm wrong about this being the most dominating 5 year period in MLB history.

Great! They do worse vs the bad teams.

Stork apologist!

ERod leaves hurt. No Beni. No Devers. No Moreland. No Pearce. No Vazquez. No Pedey. Yes win.

Cuevas with 7 IP and just 2 hits/ 1BB (0 ER) Ockimey walked 3 times (oh for 2) Jhonathan Diaz 7 IP and 4 hits/1BB (0 ER)

Nice to see JBJ with a big hit. Bogey comes through. Betts on base 5 times. One more tomorrow!

MLBTR... In further unfortunate news for the Red Sox’s staff, knuckleballer Steven Wright’s recovery from left knee inflammation is “taking longer than expected,” manager Alex Cora said Saturday (via Christopher Smith of MassLive.com). Wright, who went on the DL on June 26, is continuing to deal with soreness in that knee – which he had surgically repaired in May 2017. As a result, the Red Sox will have to continue awaiting his return.

We heard the same about the Porcello extension.

Ross is no longer here. Maybe you meant Scott or Workman.

And, several of his pitchers, good or bad, were dealt for some top talent.

Yes, and had Ben not signed anyone that year, he'd have been roasted by everyone. I was firmly against the Pablo signing and was okay with HRam, but I never expected both to do so poorly.

Certainly there are a few posters who seem to "love" Ben, but some, including myself, tend to defend him, because we feel like some posters only focus on the bad and either ignore the good or choose to only point out the bad. Ben's impact on the far was positive. he left it better off than he got it. He pulled off the Dodger dump trade that enabled the 2013 ring. He traded for Uehara and was able to get us Porcello for Cespedes -salvaging something from the Lester mess. He also acquired quite a few good players, but they did not outweigh the horrible signings of Pablo & HRam.

I'm all for getting another pen arm. We could use a strong number 2. Getting one would turn Kelly, Barnes & Co. into a formidable set-up crew. However, I think we have a pretty good pen right now without counting on Thornburg or Blasier for anything but gravy. Although our pen might not be great after Kimbrel, I think we're pretty deep: Kimbrel Kelly Barnes Hembree Workman (These 5 are basically locks.) 3 from Wright, Pom, Johnson or Velazquez Thornburg Brasier Poyner Walden Scott These are 8 decent pitchers, of which we have to choose the best 2-3 to fill out the rest of the pen. We don't "need" Thornburg or Brasier for a key role. It would be nice if Thornburg stepped into the 2 slot, but Kelly has done pretty well for 1.5 seasons, now.

It could just an off year, but I'd be fine with this move right now.