moonslav59

Well put. Maybe they can have a few extra during a ring push, but expect some valleys in between.

Whatever Henry chooses to do is fine with me. He's the best thing that happened to the Sox, and it's not even close. It was great that he spent so much to bring us rings, but part of me felt like it was getting out of hand, and we were becoming the modern day Yankees. I don't want other teams saying, "They win because the buy championships." In some sense, almost every team that has won has spent big on a FA (or a few), but we were blowing other teams away with our spending- like the Yanks of old. I'm hopeful we get back to spending after we reset, but I'd rather see us win without being the top spender (like 2004 and 2007), if we can. Of course winning while spending large is still nice, but I think you know what I mean. Reset. Build the farm back to at least mediocrity. Spend on a few key players. Get back to glory as quickly as possible within the framework of a reset and avoidance of max penalties.

Betts>> JD We may end up losing both, but even if we could keep JD and Betts, if we reset, we'll be severely restricted in any other moves wanted or needed. Losing JD will hurt big time, but it is what it is. Call it a cliff. Call it a rebuild. Call it what you will. But it's time to pay for that 2018 ring.

So, now there's no trading Sox players that are due to be fAs, either? This is no fun!

I'd say "decimated" is closer to reality than saying "some depth was lost." Both are off the mark.

More like Cashner, Weber, Chacin and Johnson. IP ER Pitcher 54 37 Cashner 41 23 Weber 40 27 Johnson 15 12 Chacin Total 149 IP 99 ERs Replaced by 148 IP -8 ERS That's a 107 ER swing. Lot's of ifs, and if the Yankee starters had 100% health, they'd have won more, too.

Including Eovaldi in the equation is problematic. His career norm is all over the map and includes much missed time similar to 2019.

Average pitching? We had above average pitching by almost any measure. Out of 30 teams, we ranked... 12th in WAR 13th in xFIP 14th in ERA- 14th in K/BB 20th in WHIP Now, if you are talking about just Sale, Price and Porcello having a career norm season in 2019, instead of what they had, then yes, we'd have won way more games. It might be close to 12-13 more wins. Sale: before 2019: 2.89 ERA (30 GS/200 IP last 7 years) Add 53 IP and 10 less ERs to his totals Price before 2019: 3.25 ERA (30 GS/200 IP last 9 years) Add 83 IP and 21 more ERs Porcello before 2019: 4.26 ERA (31 GS/186 IP last 10 years) Add 12 IP and 19 less ERs. Total: +148 IP - 8 ERs That's very significant, because those 148 IP would be subtracted from most of our worst pitchers.

How did we do by position? Team Positional WAR: 3rd SS (6.6) 0.9 from 2nd 6th RF (6.4) 0.4 from 4th 6th 3B (5.9) 0.3 from 4th 6th DH (2.8) 0.7 from 4th 10th C (3.2) 0.2 from 7th 19th CF (1.4) 1.1 from 13th 25th LF (0.9) 0.6 from 20th 25th 1B (-0.4) 1.1 from 20th 28th 2B (-0.1) 1.1 from 20th 12th in pitching (16.5) .04 from 11th 5th in RP'ing (5.5) 1.4 from 4th 14th SP'ing (11.0) 0.9 from 10th 9th in Defense (13.3) 5.9 from 8th 7th in UZR/150 (3.4) .02 from 6th 23rd in DRS (-36) 20 from 22nd

Some numbers on Vaz. Since 2003, Vaz just placed... 4th in PAs (521) 3rd in HRs (23) 25 by VTek ('03) & Salty ('12) 4th in RBI (72) 85 VTek ('03), VMart 79 ('10), VTek 73 ('04) 6th in OPS (.798)

A look at some 2019 Sox numbers: We came 1 HR short of having four 30 HR players: 36 JD 33 Bogey 32 Devers 29 Betts 23 Vaz 21 JBJ 19 Moreland 18 Chavis 13 Beni XBH Leaders: 90 Devers 85 Bogey 74 Betts 71 JD 58 Beni OPS (PAs listed if not qualified) .939 Bogey .939 JD .916 Devers .915 Betts .835 Moreland (335) .798 Vaz .774 Benu .771 Holt (295) .766 Chavis (382) .738 JBJ .656 Travis (157) .617 Marco (155) .548 Leon (191) .548 Nunez (174) .503 Pearce (99) ERA- 39 Workman 63 Taylor 78 Barnes 79 ERod 79 Walden 80 Hembree 85 Brewer 89 Price 91 Sale 92 DHern 100 Brasier 105 Weber 113 Velazquez 114 Porcello 120 Smith 124 Eovaldi 125 Johnson 129 Cashner WHIP 1.03 Workman 1.09 Sale 1.18 Taylor 1.19 Walden 1.29 Brasier 1.31 Price 1.33 ERod 1.38 Barnes 1.39 Porcello 1.53 Velazquez 1.58 Eovaldi 1.62 Cashner 1.70 Brewer xFIP 2.93 Barnes 2.93 Sale 3.33 Workman 3.37 Taylor 3.57 DHern 3.73 Price 4.10 ERod 4.17 Walden 4.89 Eovaldi 5.14 Porcello

Yes, he earned his contracts, but we basically gave up 4 prospects for about $8.6M in value. If we are going to use fangraph's value, then let's use it to total up Margot and Allen's value and see if it tops $8.6M.

lmao

By spending big again after 2020, and by picking up some good young players, in trade, for JD and JBJ- maybe Barnes. Keeping Betts. A core of Betts, Bogey, Devers, Beni, Erod, Vaz plus maybe some health luck from Price and/or Sale is not a bad foundation.

Yes, but his numbers slipped (except k/9 & ERA+) for the first time in 4 years.

No, but it's not set in stone. I think we start the season with the idea of staying under, but if we look like we have a chance, we may trade for salary in July and reset the next winter.

Maybe the injury label is gone because he DH'd so much.

I think Barnes will bounce back next year and increase his value. I'd wait on dealing him until July 2020.

I agree, but with just 2 years of team control, I'd listen to offers.

One for Saint Paddy's, one for Thanksgiving,,,

I'd hate to trade ERod. We have won almost 80% of his starts over the last 2 years, but I'll listen to any trade offer for anyone.

He's on the wrong side of 30, now, and he has a 4.80 ERA (1.32 WHIP) the last 3 years combined. Getting 6 IP almost every start and a 4.80 ERA is pretty good for a #4 or 5, but I'm not so sure about him being closer to 4.80 than 5.50, next year. He probably needs a chance of scenery.

Well, Porcello let up just under 4 per 6, and you said he'll be hard to replace. That's almost 4.5 in 6.

Yes, indeed. Nobody should be happy to see JD go. He's a class act and was not overpaid.

I see some comments as unfair, too. I only used the word "ruined" to parrot the term you used in your comment, but there have been some posters who have used similar words. I think I've been fair to DD. I've said I have liked his overall plan, and I am thrilled it worked. Personally, I don't think it's being unfair to say I think he went a little too far with the prospect trades and there are clearly 2-4 that did not work out all that well, so that type of criticism goes with the GM job and is within the limits of fairness, IMO. I was fine with the trade off, and who am I to say he "went to far?" He wanted to make sure we had the horses to win a ring, and he got them. GMs have to plan on some deals not working, and going back in hindsight is not all that "fair," but it's tuhe nature of the business and certainly the nature of boards like this. Theo caught slack and Ben was crucified on this board and others. Fair? Maybe not, but I think pointing out that are farm is comparatively very weak, fight now, because of some things DD did along with other factors is just speaking to truth. With a limited budget and a new system of making it very hard for winning and big spending teams to rebuild their farm, getting back to glory will not be easy. One could argue DD knew these new rules and the direction MLB was going, and how keeping a strong farm while still winning may be what it's all about, and he chose to go for broke. It worked. I'm fine with any GM that brings us a ring. Now, it's time for the "broke" side of the equation. The budget will be reset at some point, and the farm has to be rebuilt for us to have a better chance at returning to glory.