moonslav59

Weird. But then again, the signs of giving up have been around a while.

Maybe part of it is sour grapes, at least to some, but that's understandable. I'm not seeing a lot of unfounded criticism or "pot shots." Yes, there's the usual Yankee hate statements and sentiments, but nothing out of the ordinary between fierce rivalries. My placing the Yankees 3rd in odds of winning it all has nothing to do with them being the Yanks. I've always been high on having 2-3 great SP'ers. The Yanks have none (healthy).

I guess one can call it "giving up," but I just think it's just reading the writing on the wall. It's in bold print with a large font. I have no beef with anyone who still believes. I'm usually the guy arguing against the non believers, but I just don't see anything to get worked up about.

Who cares? We suck, but it shouldn't stop us from being critical of others, especially our arch enemies. I'm not sure what the issue is. Should we all go meek and mild, because we're having a down year or few years?

Because we suck. Our starting pitchers suck, too. Our pen sucks: theirs doesn't. We come up short when we need it way more than them. The Yanks have a clear weakness. It's not a big enough weakness (the rotation) to lose to the sucky Sox, but it will likely matter against Houston, LA and maybe others.

It wasn't so much the delay as it just bugged me.

While I had issues with Nomar's defense, he was way better than Jeter on D. IMO, Jeter is the worst defensive SS in my time watching baseball (not counting scrubs who hardly played.) Nomar was a much better hitter but for a much shorter time.

Spike is on my list under "neutral". He was a good fielder. I'm not sure why I never liked him all that much. I just remember liking Quinones in the field. That little bit of like was more than my like of Nomar. (Nomar's routine before each pitch bugged me, too.)

Naehring always seemed to be hurt and lacked range. (I did have him above Nomar!) My favorite Sox player, now is JBJ, so it's not about being the best player, to me. When JBJ goes, Rafael is my man!

It's about my favorites. I'm high on D, especially at SS, CF and catcher. Nomar was all flash on D with very little substance. He made easy plays look hard. Loved his bat. When he was traded, no lie, I said to my brothers-in-laws, "We just traded Nomar for Orlando Cabrera! This trade will win us a ring!" Certainly, OCab alone did not win us the ring, but his solid defense was a big plus, and he hit pretty well, too. Too bad he couldn't leave the other wives alone.

What "pot shots?" The team has glaring weaknesses that even Yankee fans know and bitch about.

I started rooting for the Sox in the early 70's, my favorite SSs have been: 1. Rick Burleson (most innings at SS by any Sox since 1970) 2. Luis Aparicio (one of the first players that showed me the value of defense) 3. Alex Gonzalez (for some reason his defensive metrics did not meet my eye test) 4. Xander Bogaerts (his offense way more than makes up for his D) 5. John Valentin (not great on D but an unsung player) 6. Alex Cora, Pokey Reese, OCab, Iggy, Rey Quinones, Mario Guerrero (many were no stick) 7. Tim Naehring 8. Nomar (Man, the guy could hit!) Neutral: Hoffman (5th in innings) & Luis Rivera (6th in innings) just never got my heart Spike Owen & Gutierrez (Jody Reed) Lowrie, Scutaro & Aviles Drew Worst: 1. Lugo 2. Renteria

So, me placing them 3rd may not be so wild & crazy.

I cried buckets when Alex Gonzalez was traded. Does that count? (He actually started hitting HRs after he left us.)

How about second fewest errors made by a SS since 2011 (6,000+ innings)? Only Peralta made less. How about 3rd best Flg%? How about 2nd best UZR/150?

No. It was a big deal. I just think 2 bad plays does not tip the balance. We'll never know if Iggy makes 2 big errors for us, had we kept him. Would he have still gotten hurt in 2014? It's my opinion, and I respect yours. Drew and Peavy helped us in 2013, and we won a ring. The trade worked. That doesn't mean I have to agree Drew was better than Iggy in this time frame.

I've watched every play of every Sox game for over a decade. Those were horrible and extremely costly errors. I never judge players on 2 plays. Nobody should. I hated the trade at the time, but I said it made sense. We needed a SP'er. The trade worked. We are talking about two different things. Iggy was not traded for Drew. I'd rather have had Iggy from 2013-2015 than Drew. That was my point.

It's not denigration to say I feel they have the 3rd best chance to win it all. Nobody has had a better than 50-50 chance of winning it all going into the playoffs that I remember. The percentages of winning it all, to me, is something like this: 30% HOU 28% LAD 25% NYY 17% the rest of the field. I'd say giving the Yanks a 25% chance to 17% for the 7 teams is giving them a lot of credit. To me, SP'ing means much more in the playoffs, especially your best 2-3 starters, who start 80% of the games not 50-60% as the regular season shows. Best SP'ers by WAR 6. Cole 4.5 7. Verlander 4.4 9. Buehler 4.3 11. Greinke 4.1 12. Ryu 4/1 21. Kershaw 3.4 39. Tanaka 2.5 47. Paxton 2.3 52. Maeda 2.0 53. Miley 2.0 By ERA- 1. Ryu 39 5. Verlander 63 7. Greinke 63 12. Cole 65 19. Miley 72 (Why can't we get guys like him? Thanks, Ben.) 22. Buehler 74 53. German 90 66. Paxton 97 69. Tanaka 98 The Guardians and Rays both have at least 2 SP'ers better than the Yankee 3. Hell, even the Sox have 3! Now, before you start going off on how important the pen is, the Yanks have the best, but others are much closer to them than the Yank's distance behind in SP'ing. Team Pen WAR 1. NYY 6.3 2. TBR 6.0 3. MN 4.9 4. CLE 4.7 9. HOU 4.0 16. LAD 2.3 (BOS is 6th at 4.5) xFIP 1. Hou 3.97 5. NYY 4.25 5. BOS 4.29 13. LAD 4.45 WHIP 2. HOU 1.20 3. LAD 1.21 4. TBR 1.21 5. CLE 1.26 8. NYY 1.33 11. BOS 1.35

Yes, so Drew is better over two plays in his career? And for a guy apparently known for making errors on easy plays, he has 43 career errors. That's only 13 more than Renteria had in one year with the Sox.

Lousy teammate? Where do you get this crap? Again, nobody ever wanted to get rid of Bogey for X, so stop the Iggy vs Bogey strawman stuff. We wanted Iggy & Bogey. It was Iggy vs Middy, Iggy vs Drew and Iggy vs any other 3Bman in our system until 2015.

I honestly thought I wrote "with Boston," but I did not. To me, Iggy was better from 2013-2015- the same time period Drew was with us ('13-'14), and the time Iggy was still under team control from his original contract (to '15, I believe). Yes, Iggy got hurt with the Tiger in 2014, but even the offensive numbers from 2013-2015 were better than Drew's, and that was the one thing Drew supposedly had on Iggy- Offense. OPS 2013-2015: .725 Iggy (.348 OBP and 16 SBs) .674 Drew (.288 OBP and 7 SBs) To be fair, Drew had a better UZR/150 than Iggy during this period (10.2 to 7.1). It's like our impressions of these two were upside down.

I have little "faith" the Yanks will win it all. (I don't like the word "faith" when talking about any other team,let alone the Yankees.) I'd put the Astros & Dodgers ahead of the Yanks. Cleveland (especially if Kluber returns) and some other NL teams could surprise. 1) Astros 2) Dodgers 3) Yankees

Simply put. Spot on. I can't remember a time where I wouldn't blink an eye, if we DFA'd any one of 10 guys on our current 40 man roster: Owings Curletta Kelley Josh Smith Shawaryn Weber Maybe... Reyes Lakins Poyner Then, there are the lame duck vets... Pearce Cashner Leon Maybe not DFA, but not part of our future plans: Porcello Moreland Pedroia (Maybe Wright, Brewer, Brasier, Hembree, Johnson, Velazquez and Travis) I think the list of keepers is almost shorter.

How many did he boot? How many tough plays did Drew make? 2 plays is all you are basing your judgement on. One at a very bad time. (In guess you must be one of those guys who bashed Buckner to bits.) The one thing Drew had going for him was his offensive edge, yet Iggy outhit him in the regular season and the playoff series. Drew was horrible the next year, and the whole Iggy vs Drew debate (it was never Iggy vs Bogey) was about more than just 2013. It was about improved defense and a better future.

No problem. No offense taken.