moonslav59

Are we willing to part with Casas? Does some GM really like Groome, Duran or DHernandez? We can make trades like the Addison Reed trade, but would making 2 deals like that be enough?

The starters have lost more games than the pen. Don't ignore all their plane crashes.

I don't see any of them as being our equals, but we have to play more to our potential to beat them all out. If we can't beat CLE, OAK & TEX then we don't deserve a trip to the playoffs.

That's how I see it, but I'd like to see him get one long before the trade deadline. Maybe he's waiting for Wright, and the roster restrictions due to several marginal players being out of options, but we could trade an out of options pitcher plus a decent prospect for a solid pen arm. Pitchers out of options: Thornburg Johnson Wright Workman

I think they have, to date,performed better than expected and better than their past careers indicated they would perform. This is on DD not Cora. Cora has gotten the most he could possibly get out of this group of journeymen headed by one good set up man (Barnes before this year).

$4-6M is enough to get a very good RP'er or two solid one when you figure we only pay 1/3 of their contracts, or we get the other team to pitch in cash like we got with Eovaldi last year.

Because we tend to just remember the blown saves and pen meltdowns. We forget this... 8 Games where the starter got a -2 and we won. 3 Games where the starter got a -1 and we won. 5 Games where a starter got a 0 and we won. That's 11 game of negative performance by our starters and the pen were big in getting us a win, and it is 16 games without aplus performance from our SP'ers, yet we still won. That's equal to our blown save total, but we don't remember the good 16- just the bad 16 (BTW, some games we had multiple blown saves, so the pen did not lose 16 games with 16 blown saves.)

Maybe something like this would give us LASTING ENERGY.

Barnes has been one of the best set-up men in MLB for 2-3 years. He's looking bad now, but he's not a journeyman. Workman and Walden are having career years, but I agree in calling them journeymen. Brasier was always a wing and a prayer. Hembree is a journeyman. We have to hope Wright is in top form, and we luck out on whoever we end up trading for. It's not impossible. If Eovaldi comes back to form, we can maybe get by with just one of the above. Most championship teams win despite an area with journeymen.

The pen is doing about the same as last year, without all the blown saves, but also with several games where they clearly went above and beyond to get us a win or keep us from losing. Pen 2018 vs 2019: WHIP: 1.29- 1.32 ERA-: 83-84 SIERA: 3.70-3.85 K/BB: 0.98-1.19 W-L: 40-16 - 20-10 (Prorate to ~40-20) Sv: 46- 16 (Prorate to ~33) WAR: 3.8 - 2.9 (Prorate to ~5.8) xFIP: 4.05- 4.18 xFIP-: 96-92 IP 587.1- 303.2 (Prorate to ~610) Other than the saves issue, the numbers are very close, and when you figure offense is up league-wide,one could argue they look about equal-- by the numbers. That being said, I'll take the 2018 pen over this one.

My guess is, if we were playing like the Guardians, A's Rangers or White Sox, even more poster would have already jumped of the wagon or would be hanging on by a thread.

Alternative Pitcher Scoring System: + 2 for any SP'er or Pen game where their ERA is 3.00 or less for 5 or more innings, 2.00 for 4 or less innings, 1.00 for 3 or less innings or 0.00 for 2 or less innings +1 for any SP'er or Pen game where their ERA is 3.00 or less for 4.2 or less innings. 0 for any game where their ERA is between 3.01 and 4.50. -1 for any game where their ERA is between 4.51 and 6.00. -2 for any game over 6.01 1. L 12-4 Sale 7/3- Pen 4/5 (S-2/R -2) 2. W 7-6 Eovaldi 6/5- Pen 0/4 (S-2/R+2) 3. L 6-5 ERod 5/4.1- Pen 0/3.2 (S-2/R+2) 4. L 10-8 Porcello 4/2.2- Pen 1/5.1 (S-2/R+2) 5. L 6-0 Price 4/6- Pen 2/2 (S-2/R-2) 6. L 1-0 Sale 1/6- Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 7. W 6-3 Eovaldi 3/5- Pen 0/4 (S-1/R+2) 8. L 7-3 ERod 6/3.2- Pen 1/4.1 (S-2/R +2) 9. L 15-8 Porcello 7/4.2- Pen 8/3.1 (S-2/R-2) 10. W 5-4 Price 4/6- Pen 1/3 (S-1/R+1) Sub Total: SP -14/ RP +7 11. W 1-0 Velaz 0/3- Pen 0/6 (S+2/R+2) 12. L 7-5 Sale 5/4- Pen 2/5 (S-2/R+2) 13. W 7-6 Eovaldi 5/5- Pen 1/4 (S-2/R+2) 14. W 6-4 ERod 2/6.2- Pen 2/2.1 (S+2/-2) 15. L 9-5 Porcello 3/4- Pen 4/5 (S-2/R-2) 16. W 4-0 Price 0/7- Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 17. L 8-1 Velaz 1/3- Pen 7/6 (S+1*/R-2) 18. L 8-0 Sale 4/5- Pen 4/3 (S-2/R-2) 19. L 5-3 Eovaldi 0/6- Pen 4/2 (S+2/R-2) 20. W 6-4 ERod 3/5.1- Pen 0/3.2 (S-1/R+2) Sub Total: SP +0/ RP +0 21. W 6-5 Porcello 2/5.2- Pen 3/3.1 (S+0/R-2) 22. W 4-3 Price 2/5- Pen 1/6 (S+2/R+2) 23. L 7-4 Sale 2/5- Pen 5/4 (S+2/R-2) 24. L 4-2 Velaz 3/3.1- Pen 1/5.9 (S-2/R+2) 25. W 11-4 ERod 1/6- Pen 3/3 (S+2/R-2) 26. W 7-2 Porcello 3/6- Pen 0/3 (S+0/R+2) 27. L 2-1 Price 2/6- Pen 0/3 (S+2/S+2) 28. L 5-2 Sale 2/7(2 unearned)- Pen 1/2 (S+2/R+0) 29. W 9-4 ERod 4/4.2- Pen 0/4.1 (S-2/R+2) 30. W 5-1 Porcello 0/8- Pen 1/1 (S+2/R-2) Sub Total: SP +8/ RP +2 31. W 7-3 Velaz 1/2- Pen 2/7 (S-2/R+2) 32. L 6-4 Price 3/6- Pen 2/2.1 (1 unearned) (S+0/R-2) 33. W 6-1 Sale 0/6- Pen 1/3 (S+2/R+1) 34. W 15-2 ERod 1/6- Pen 1/3 (S+2/R+1) 35. W 9-2 Porcello 2/6- Pen 0/3(S+2/R+2) 36. L 4-1 Smith 4/3.1- Pen 0/4.2 (S-2/R+2) 37. W 8-5 Velaz 2/3- Pen 3/7 (S-2/R+0) 38. W 2-1 Sale 1/8- Pen 0/4 (S+2/R+2) 39. W 14-1 ERod 0/7- Pen 1/2 (S+2/R+0) 40. W 9-5 Porcello 4/6.2- Pen 1/2.2 (S-1/R+0) Sub Total: SP+7/RP +8 41. W 11-2 Velz 2/5- Pen 0/4 (S+2/R+2) 42. L 5-4 Sale 2/7- Pen 3/4 (S+2/R-2) 43. W 6-5 ERod 5/6- Pen 0/4 (S-2/R+2) 44. L 3-1 Porcello 2/7 - Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 45. L 7-3 Velaz 5/0.1 -Pen 2/8.2 (S-2/R+2) 46. W 4-3 Sale 3/5.1- Pen 0/3.2 (S+0/R+2) 47. W 12-2 Price 0/5 (2 unearned)- Pen 0/4 (S+2/R+2) 48. L 10-3 ERod 6/5- Pen 4/3 (S-2/R-2) 49. W 6-5 Porcello 1/6- Pen 4/7 (S+2/R+0) 50. W 8-2 Weber 1/6- Pen 1/3 (S+2/R+1) Sub Total: SP +6/ RP +9 51. L 4-3 Sale 2/6- Pen 0/2 (S+2/R+2) 52. L 4-3 Price 0/0.2- Pen 4/7.1 (S+0*/R+1) 53. W 4-1 ERod 1/6- Pen 0/3 (S+2/R+2) 54. W 12-5 Porcello 3/6.2 2 unearned- Pen 0/2.1 (S+1/R+2) 55. L 7-5 Price 0/6- Pen 7/3 (S+2/R-2) 56. L 14-9 Weber 7/4- Pen 7/5(S-2/R-2) 57. L 4-1 Sale 4/6- Pen 0/2 (S+0/R+2) 58. L 5-3 Porcello 5/4.2- Pen 0/3.1 (S-2/R+2) 59. W 8-5 Price 2/6.1- Pen 3/2.2 (S+2/R-2) 60: W8-3 KCR: ERod 2/5.2 2/ RP 1/3.1 1 (S+2/R+1) Sub Total: SP +7/ RP +6 61: W 8-0 KCR: Sale 0/9.0 (S+3**) 62: W 7-5 KCR: Weber 2/1.1- Pen: 3/7.2 IP 3 (S-2/R+1) 63: L 5-1 TBR: Porcello 4/6 IP- Pen 1/3.0 (S+0/R+1) 64: L 9-2 TBR: Josh Smith 4/4.0 IP- Pen 4/5.0 IP (S-2/R-2) 65: W 5-1 TBR: Price 1/6.0 IP-Pen 0/3.0 (S+2/R+2) 66: L 6-1 TBR: ERod 4/5.2- Pen 2/4.1 (S-2/R+0) 67: L 4-3 TEX: Sale 0/7.0- Pen 3/4.0 (S+2/R-2) 68: L 9-5 TEX: DHerm 3/3- Pen 5/6.0 (S-2/R-2) 69: W 4-3 TEX: Porcello 2/6.2-Pen 0/2.1 (S+2/R+2) 70: W 7-6 TEX: Price 6/1.1- Pen 0/7.9 (S-2/R+3**) Sub Total: SP -1/ RP +3 71: W 13-2 BAL: ERod 1/7- Pen 1/2.0 (S+2/R+0) 72: W 7-2 BAL: Sale 2/6.0- Pen 0/2.0 (S+2/R+2) 73: W 8-6 BAL in 10: Johnson 1/3.0 IP- Pen 3/7.0 (S+1/R+1) 74: W 2-0 MN: Porcell 0/7- Pen 0/2.0 (S+2/R+2) 75: L 4-3 MN (17 inn): Price 1/5.0- Pen 3/11.1 (S+2/R+2) 76: W 9-4 MN: ERod 4/7- Pen 0/2.0 (S+0/R+2) 77. W 7-5 TOR: Sale 3/5.0- (1 unearned)/ Pen 1/5.0 (S+0/R+2) 78: L 8-7 TOR: Johnson 0/5.0- Pen 7/4.0 (S+2/R-3**) 79: L 6-1 TOR: Porcello 5/6.0- Pen 1/3.0 (S-2/R+1) 80: W6-5 CWS: ERod 5/6.0- Pen 0/3.0 (S-2/R+2) Sub Total: SP +7/ RP +11 81: W6-3 CWS: Price 2/6.0- Pen 0/3.0 (S+2/R+2) 82: L 8-7 CWS: Sale 5/6.0-Pen 3/3.0 (S-2/R-2) The pen has never been minus in any 10 game segment. The season totals after 79 games: SP +20 RP +46

Okay, but then subtract a point when they pitch poorly and the pen keeps the team in for the win. I only give the pen credit for the win and no deductions are made for a poor start.

It's just two games. A team can go 30-8 and still have a 2 games losing streak withing that frame.

I based it almost totally on ERA. If a starter went 6 IP and let up 3 ERs and the pen went 3 with 1 ER, I gave it to the pen, but I'd be okay with calling it 0.5 to 0.5. I tried to give the benefit of doubt to the SP'er, if it was close. Point out a game you feel I was wrong, and we'll talk.

Nope.

But Happ is a second half pitcher!

Of course, but we only have a limited budget (until Henry & DD show me otherwise) and our pen needs a solid closer or set-up man. I still think we are a lock for a playoff slot, but I've been wrong before.

s***** game. Nothing more to say. Nothing good about it.

I do think the pen is important, and there are inconsistent RP'ers and starters. There don't seem to be many consistent RP'ers, and even Kimbrel looked like a train wreck at the end of last year. IMO, the most consistent RP'er cost way to much money. It's not so much wanting to skimp on the pen as it is not wanting to spend huge on it. There is a gray area between, and that is where we have skimped. In hindsight, spending on a RP'er instead of Pearce looks like a no-brainer, and many said this in foresight. Now that Eovaldi has been on the shelf for so long, one could question that signing vs 2 good RP'ers as well. We did not have the money to spend large, unless we signed KImbrel not Eovaldi & Pearce. I still think signing Kimbrel would have been a mistake, so what was left? I loved Ottavino, and that signing worked out well, but I also saw Cody Allen as a "gray area" signing, and he has sucked. Many of the other RP'er signed this winter have been horrible or hurt or both. We could easily have satisfied your call to action last winter and struck out with every signing. Most were duds. The odds would have been against us had we signed 2-3 decent to good RP'ers. I think DD recognized the budget and the crap shoot nature of those pitcher he could have signed and figured he'd wait to trade for one in the summer--one that has shown not to be a dud. Certainly that position is worthy of criticism, but so far, our pen has not been as bad as the blown saves makes it appear to be. My worry is about going forward. We both agree: we NEED HELP NOW!

We did get Eovaldi last year for Beeks, so it's not impossible to find a starter this summer, especially if it is a buyer's market. I would prefer 2 RP'ers. Maybe give Wright a chance to show he can be one, but we need to go outside the system to get a very solid RP'er. I'd prefer a closer, but i'd be fine with a very solid set-up man. I'm not sue how much longer we can wait. Today's loss was on the starter (Porcello). New tally: Starters 17-23 (-6) Relievers 25-14 (+11)

But, how many games did our starter suck, and the pen did a greata job keeping the team in the game while the offense scored enough for us to get the win? Is that not as important as blown saves vs saves? What stat captures that value? Our pen has certainly blown more wins than anybody wants. It's been maddening. It's horrible. It needs to be fixed (YESTERDAY!). That being said, our pen has saved the day way more time than thay have blown games. They have won games for us that do not count as a "save." Many of our RP'ers got wins. They have 20 wins credited to them. Some are after they blew a save and we still won, but many were hard earned. Game by Game ER/IP(SP vs Pen) 1. L 12-4 Sale 7/3- Pen 4/5 2. W 7-6 Eovaldi 6/5- Pen 0/4 3. L 6-5 ERod 5/4.1- Pen 0/3.2 4. L 10-8 Porcello 4/2.2- Pen 1/5.1 5. L 6-0 Price 4/6- Pen 2/2 6. L 1-0 Sale 1/6- Pen 0/2 7. W 6-3 Eovaldi 3/5- Pen 0/4 8. L 7-3 ERod 6/3.2- Pen 1/4.1 9. L 15-8 Porcello 7/4.2- Pen 8/3.1 10. W 5-4 Price 4/6- Pen 1/3 11. W 1-0 Velaz 0/3- Pen 0/6 12. L 7-5 Sale 5/4- Pen 2/5 13. W 7-6 Eovaldi 5/5- Pen 1/4 14. W 6-4 ERod 2/6.2- Pen 2/2.1 15. L 9-5 Porcello 3/4- Pen 4/5 16. W 4-0 Price 0/7- Pen 0/2 (pen did well) 17. L 8-1 (pen game) Velz 1/3- Pen 7/6 18. L 8-0 Sale 4/5- Pen 4/3 19. L 5-3 Eovaldi 0/6- Pen 4/2 20. W 6-4 ERod 3/5.1- Pen 0/3.2 21. W 6-5 Porcello 2/5.2- Pen 3/3.1 22. W 4-3 Price 2/5- Pen 1/6 23. L 7-4 Sale 2/5- Pen 5/4 24. L 4-2 (pen game) Velaz 3/3.1- Pen 1/5.9 25. W 11-4 ERod 1/6- Pen 3/3 26. W 7-2 Porcello 3/6- Pen 0/3 27. L 2-1 Price 2/6- Pen 0/3 28. L 5-2 Sale 2/7(2 unearned)- Pen 1/2 29. W 9-4 ERod 4/4.2- Pen 0/4.1 30. W 5-1 Porcello 0/8- Pen 1/1 31. W 7-3 (pen game) Velaz 1/2- Pen 2/7 32.L 6-4 Price 3/6- Pen 2/2.1 (1 unearned) Shared? 33. W 6-1 Sale 0/6- Pen 1/3 34.W 15-2 ERod 1/6- Pen 1/3 35. W 9-2 Porcello 2/6- Pen 0/3 36. L 4-1 JSmith 4/3.1- Pen 0/4.2 37. W 8-5 (pen game) Velaz 2/3- Pen 3/7 38. W 2-1 Sale 1/8- Pen 0/4 (Close to shared win) 39. W 14-1 ERod 0/7- Pen 1/2 40. W 9-5 Porcello 4/6.2- Pen 1/2.2 41. W 11-2 Velz 2/5- Pen 0/4 42. L 5-4 Sale 2/7- Pen 3/4 43. W 6-5 ERod 5/6- Pen 0/4 44. L 3-1 Porcello 2/7 - Pen 0/2 45. L 7-3 Velaz 5/0.1 -Pen 2/8.2 46. W 4-3 Sale 3/5.1- Pen 0/3.2 47. W 12-2 Price 0/5 2 unearned- Pen 0/4 48. L 10-3 ERod 6/5- Pen 4/3 49. W 6-5 Porcello 1/6- Pen 4/7 50. W 8-2 Weber 1/6- Pen 1/3 51. L 4-3 Sale 2/6- Pen 0/2/ 52. L 4-3 Price 0/0.2- Pen 4/7.1 53. W 4-1 ERod 1/6- Pen 0/3 54. W 12-5 Porcello 3/6.2 2 unearned- Pen 0/2.1 55. L 7-5 Price 0/6- Pen 7/3 56. L 14-9 Weber 7/4- Pen 7/5 57. L 4-1 Sale 4/6- Pen 0/2 58. L 5-3 Porcello 5/4.2- Pen 0/3.1 59. W 8-5 Price 2/6.1- Pen 3/2.2 60: W8-3 KCR: ERod put us in a hole 2-0, but we scored 3 in the 6th to get him the win: SP 5.2 2 ER/ RP 3.1 1ER - Slight edge to RP 61: W 8-0 KCR: Chris Sale pitched shut out: SP all the way. 62: W 7-5 KCR: Pen game. Weber started (1.1 IP 2 ER). The pen: 7.2 IP 3 ER. Pen gets the win. 63: L 5-1 TBR: Porcello 6 IP 4 ER/ Pen 3 IP 1 ER: loss edge to SP 64: L 9-2 TBR: Josh Smith (4 IP 4 ER)/ Pen 5 IP 4 ER- 4 in 9th after game was already lost) Edge loss to SP. 65: W 5-1 TBR: Price 6 IP 1 ER/ Pen 3 IP 0 ER: Win goes to both. (+0.5) 66: L 6-1 TBR: ERod 5.2 IP 4 ER/ Pen 4.1 IP 2 ER: Loss goes to SP 67: L 4-3 TEX: Sale 7 IP 0ER/ Pen 4 IP 3 ER: Loss goes to pen. 68: L 9-5 TEX: DHerm 3 IP 3 ER/ Pen 6 IP 5 ER: I'll call this a tie loss. 69: W 4-3 TEX: Porcello 6.2 IP 2 ER/ Pen 2.1 IP 0 ER: Edge to pen. 70: W 7-6 TEX: Price 1.1 IP 6 ER/ Pen 7.9 IP 0 ER: Clear win to pen 100%! 71: W 13-2 BAL: ERod 7 IP 1 ER/ Pen 2 IP 1 ER: Clear win for SP. 72: W 7-2 BAL: Sale 6IP 2 ER/ Pen 2 IP 0 ER: Edge to RP 73: W 8-6 BAL in 10: Johnson 3 IP 1 ER/ Pen 7 IP 3 ER. Edge to SP despite just 3 IP. 74: W 2-0 MN: Porcello 7 IP 0 ER/ Pen 2 IP 0 ER. SP gets win. 75: L 4-3 MN (17 inn): Price 5 IP 1 ER/Pen 11.1 3 ER. Pen gets loss. 76: W 9-4 MN: ERod 7 IP 4 ER/ Pen 2 IP 0 ER: Win to pen. 77. W 7-5 TOR: Sale 5 IP 3 ER (1 unearned)/ Pen 5 IP 1 ER: Pen gets the win. 78: L 8-7 TOR: Johnson 5 IP 0 ER/ Pen 4 IP 7 ER: Pen gets the loss. Totals: Starters 17-22 (-5) Relievers 25-14 (+11)

Again, and I've said this many times, Our pen has been a plus to date, but going forward, it is by far our biggest area of need. WE NEED TO ACQUIRE AT LEAST ONE SOLID RP'ER... and YESTERDAY! That has been my position since the beginning of the off season.

You only need 4 starters in the playoffs. We have 4- not counting Eovaldi.

Steven Wright Nearing Activation By Connor Byrne | June 22, 2019 at 9:26pm CDT It’s “expected” the Red Sox will activate right-handed knuckleballer Steven Wright on Tuesday, Chris Cotillo of MassLive.com writes. Wright’s at the end of an 80-game suspension for performance-enhancing drug use. The Red Sox will need to clear a 40-man roster spot for Wright upon his return. The 34-year-old Wright, a one-time All-Star, has mostly worked as a starter dating back to his 2013 debut. He has logged a 4.00 ERA/4.45 FIP with 6.91 K/9 and 3.18 BB/9 in 263 innings out of Boston’s rotation. Although the Red Sox may now need a starter after Chris Sale, David Price, Rick Porcello and Eduardo Rodriguez, it won’t be Wright. They’ll likely use him as a reliever, per Cotillo, as Wright’s also coming back from 2018 left knee surgery. The Red Sox’s bullpen ranks an impressive fourth in the majors in ERA, fifth in FIP and ninth in K/BB ratio, but Wright still may be able to help the unit. Neither left-handed hitters nor righties have enjoyed a ton of success at Wright’s expense. Lefties have hit .237/.316/.359 off Wright, while righties have posted a .252/.321/.407 line against him.