moonslav59

It was a spectacular year, and many of DD's "smaller moves" turned out to be as important, if not more important than the Kimbrel, Sale or Price moves. DD deserves all the props he gets. That was the greatest season in Sox history, if you take away the emotion from the curse-breaking 2004 season. To me, the cliff we are living, now, was well worth it. I'm glad we hired Theo, Ben and DD. I'm hopeful Bloom will join the club, but only time will tell.

I'd say the value of Price is hard to measure. DD left Bloom with the full contract. What Bloom did with it can be measured separately. If Price sucks, Bloom "saved"us $15M a year. One can view the Price deal as part of the reason we traded Betts. The fact is, DD left Bloom with the whole Price contract, and a hell of a lot more money on the books in Price, Sale and Eovaldi than what HRam, Pando & Castillo. Sure, those 3 gave us nothing and even negative value, but the value of the three DD left us vs the cost can be viewed as worse in net value, or at least close to the same. It's not an easy comp, and I can't see either side being a slam dunk. On the farm value issue, there is no debate. Ben left DD a way better farm (on paper) than DD left Bloom.

He'll certainly ask for more, but I doubt anyone gives much more than $15M/3 or $11M/2.

True, but then maybe it's a bit too early to call some of his other dumpster dives failures.

At the time of those deals, I said he was playing it "halfway," and I agree, he should have gone more towards youth and team controlled players. They did get Kelly in the Lackey deal, and he was controlled and very promising. We got Hembree and Escobar for Peavy. They were young. I do agree with your point.

Quintanna was traded away shortly after Sale.

Here's a look at the top prospects over the years: https://soxprospects.com/history.htm The October 2015 list included: 1. Moncada (Sale) 2. Devers 3. Margot (Kimbrel) 4. Beni 5. Guerra (Kimbrel) 6. Kopech (Sale) 7. Johnson 9. S Travis 10 Marrero (Josh Taylor) 11. Chavis 12. Basabe (Sale) 13. Allen (Kimbrel) 17. Marco H 18 Dubon (Thornburg)

Sounds about right. I'd shoot for $9M/2 with a team option for $5M and a $1M buyout.

I was only rating the bottom of our 40 man roster. Casas is not on the 40 man roster.

I was clearly talking about only the money, as in bloated contracts handed over to the next GM.

My guess is Chavis, Arauz & Lin all have a better chance of playing 2B or being our utility IF'er in 2021 than Chatham. Downs will likely pass him at some point in 2021 or early 2022.

He did acquire the contract of Craig, though, but the deal also shed some money (Lackey), so it wasn't as bad as it looked. Although many of the prospects Ben handed over to DD have not looked all that great, at the time, they were rated highly and many brought back nice returns via trade due to that perceived value. The farm DD handed over to Bloom is so far below what Ben handed to DD, it's not even close. The bloated contracts look to be about even. DD handed over more money owed, but the players were not complete deadwoods like HanRam, Pablito & Castillo were.

Yes, I admit I distorted it by calling 2019 part of "the cliff," but I did not distort the things Bell was talking about in this response. Near bare cupboards & bloated contracts handed over to Bloom.

I didn't distort this. I never said Ben left DD more or worse bloated deals than DD left Bloom, but one could argue he did. DD left Bloom too many bloated contracts. That's not hyperbole or distortion.

Time for a fire sale and 5 year rebuild?

Many of the prospects DD traded away still have several years of team control left. Judging them, now, makes little sense. I will say that many have already shown they were not worth the hype and their control time is nearly up or their performance has not shown any signs of big league stuff. Guys like Espinoza have been hurt. Kopech may still produce, but he got hurt, too. Margot looked promising at the start of his ML career but has petered out, recently. These guys still look good or have a some decent promise: Moncada Kopech Dubon Buttrey Allen Maybe... Anderson, Bautista, Beeks, Lakins, Margot

I don't either, but it was pretty bad and was the start of the slide towards the cliff. (Yes, it was hyperbole to call it part of the cliff.)

I never said DD left worse contracts than Ben. That being said: DD to Bloom $31M x 3 Price $30M x 3 + $27.5M x 2 Sale $17M x 3 Eovaldi Ben to DD $22.8M x 3 HanRam $18M x 4 Pablito $11.7M x4 Castillo (not counted against tax) $10M x 2 Allen Craig I'm not so sure one is much worse than the other, but the jury is still out on some of DD's contracts.

I remember reading it some where, but who knows if it's true.

His numbers have not been good at all for the last year and a half, but he'd probably place 5th or 6th on our list of best ML ready & healthy pitchers, right now. That's not saying all that much, but he does look better than about 20 jabronis that have been on our staff, this year.

Deivy Grullon, picked up off waivers by the Sox, has 46 HRs in 816 ABs in AAA & AA over the last 2.5 seasons. The .354 OBP in AAA is not bad, either.

Brock on the Big Stage

Seems like we are losing many greats in a short time.

MLB.com reports: 1. Kumar Rocker, RHP, Vanderbilt Rocker was ranked No. 23 on our Draft Top 200 in 2018 as a Georgia prepster with a ton of arm strength. There were command issues and that, along with a strong commitment to Vandy, pushed him to the 38th round. A dominant freshman year and strong start to his sophomore year, with the same high octane fastball-slider combination but with better command, makes him the clear choice atop this list. 2. Jack Leiter, RHP, Vanderbilt No. 33 on the 2019 Draft Top 200 as a New Jersey prepster with an advanced feel to pitch, Al’s kid was taken in the 20th round by the Yankees last year, but everyone knew he was headed to Vandy. He pitched in just four games before the shutdown, but quickly vaulted to the top of the 2021 list as a Draft-eligible sophomore with a fastball that averaged around 92 mph and touched 96, to go along with good feel for a curve, slider and changeup. 3. Brady House, 3B/RHP, Winder-Barrow HS (Ga.) Depending on who you talk to, House is either a power-hitting future third baseman or a right-handed pitching prospect with a ton of arm strength. At the plate, he has 60-grade raw power with good feel to hit. House plays shortstop now but will likely need to slide over at the next level. On the mound, the Tennessee recruit has a 92-95 mph fastball with a good changeup and decent breaking ball. 4. Jud Fabian, OF, Florida Fabian had a very strong Cape Cod League last summer as an 18-year-old (he enrolled at Florida a year early) and it carried over into a strong start to his 2020 campaign. He makes a ton of hard contact and the power started showing up on the Cape; that continued this spring, with more to come. He has good speed and should be able to play center long-term. 5. Christian Little, RHP, Christian Brothers HS (Mo.) Little, who is one of many top high school players at this week’s Perfect Game National Showcase, is a super-athletic and projectable right-hander committed to Vanderbilt. He has an exciting three-pitch mix with a lively fastball up to 94 mph, a solid breaking ball with good depth and a very good feel for a changeup. 6. Braylon Bishop, OF, Arkansas HS (Ark.) The Arkansas commit might be the most athletic and toolsy player in the class and will show off those tools at PG National. The center fielder has incredible speed that will work on both sides of the ball. Bishop has outstanding bat speed from the left side of the plate with the ability to impact the ball and the potential to grow into excellent power. 7. Matt McLain, SS/OF, UCLA In 2018, McLain was ranked No. 54 on our Draft Top 200 and was taken at the end of the first round by the D-backs, but he opted to head to UCLA. After an All-Star turn in the Cape Cod League, his bat seemed to take a big step forward this spring. He’s always had a knack for making contact, but it was louder this year, with more extra-base thump, to go along with his plus speed and the potential for him to play up the middle somewhere defensively. 8. Luke Leto, SS/RHP, Portage Central HS (Mich.) The LSU recruit will get the chance to show off at the plate and on the mound at PG National and might be the best high schooler from Michigan since Drew Henson created buzz back in the 1990s. He’s a left-handed hitter with the ability to drive the ball to all fields. His speed and athleticism make him a threat on the basepaths and he has the actions to stick at shortstop. He also has a low-90s fastball with a good hard breaking ball on the mound. 9. Adrian Del Castillo, C, Miami Del Castillo snuck into the back end of our Top 200 in 2018, at No. 198, as a Miami area prepster with a strong commitment to attend his hometown school. Since he joined the Hurricanes, he’s done nothing but hit from the left side -- for average and power and with more walks than strikeouts. Whether he can stick behind the plate remains to be seen, but he’s also shown he can capably handle an outfield corner. 10. Tyree Reed, OF, American Canyon HS (Calif.) This Northern California standout is committed to attend Oregon State should the 2021 Draft not work out. The left-handed hitter has long limbs and a projectable frame, one that should continue to add strength and allow him to grow into even more power with excellent bat speed. Reed runs well and is a threat on the basepaths while also showing the ability to play center field long-term. 11. Izaac Pacheco, SS/3B, Friendswood HS (Tex.) Another PG National participant, Pacheco has long stood out because of the damage he can do from the left side of the plate. There’s a ton of present, and even more future, power with excellent bat speed. He has smooth and athletic actions defensively, with plenty of arm, giving him the chance to play short. If the Texas A&M recruit outgrows shortstop, he could be an outstanding fit at third base with the offensive profile to match. 12. Alex Binelas, 3B, Louisville The Wisconsin high school ranks produced first-rounder Jarred Kelenic in 2018, but it also included Binelas, who was a 35th-round pick of the Nationals before heading to Louisville. He put up excellent power numbers as a freshman, though he played in just two games this spring because of a hand injury. The pop from the left side is legit; whether he shows it off as a third baseman, where he’s played almost exclusively at Louisville, remains to be seen. 13. Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake HS (Calif.) This Southern Cal commit is the best player in the San Diego area for 2021 and the top prep prospect in all of Southern California. He has a pretty left-handed swing and makes a ton of hard contact, with power to come. The 6-foot-3 infielder has all the tools to play shortstop long-term, with good actions and hands to go along with a strong arm. 14. Gunnar Hoglund, RHP, Ole Miss Ranked No. 66 on our 2018 Draft Top 200, Hoglund was selected in Competitive Balance Round A by the Pirates that June as a bit of a pop-up guy from the Florida high school ranks. He scuffled as a freshman, but was dominant out of the gate as a sophomore, with a fastball that touches the mid-90s with very good breaking stuff and a changeup that has improved. 15. Jaden Hill, RHP, LSU Tall and athletic, Hill was No. 78 on our Draft Top 200 in 2018 as a high schooler who was a two-sport star and was drafted by the Cardinals in the 38th round before heading to LSU. Based on pure stuff and upside, he belongs higher on this list, with a low-90s fastball, an outstanding changeup and an improving slider. But he was shut down with an elbow strain in his freshman year and while he was dominant this spring, it was in a relief role and he’ll have to show he’s healthy to move up boards in 2021. 16. Ian Moller, C, Wahlert HS (Iowa) The history of high schoolers from Iowa doing well in the Draft is sparse, but Moller is hoping to buck that trend. The LSU recruit who will be at PG National is a strong and powerful backstop who has shown the ability to barrel up the baseball against good competition, with pop to all fields. He also had good catch and throw skills, showing athleticism behind the plate and a quick release. 17. Colton Cowser, OF, Sam Houston State Cowser hails from a slightly smaller program and conference than many other college players on this list, but jumped on the map with a big freshman season at Sam Houston State, then performed well for the U.S. Collegiate National Team last summer. He has a knack for barreling up the baseball; how much power he shows next year could impact his Draft stock. 18. Sal Frelick, OF, Boston College Frelick played multiple sports as a high schooler in Massachusetts and went undrafted in high school. He had a huge freshman season at Boston College, showing the ability to make consistent contact with an advanced approach from the left side of the plate that has led to him drawing more walks than strikeouts so far in his career. He has plus speed and has already shown a knack for stealing bases. 19. Jordan Lawlar, SS, Jesuit Prep HS (Texas) Committed to Vanderbilt, Lawlar is also currently at PG National showing off his tools. He’s a premium athlete who has every chance to stay up the middle at shortstop. He has good first-step quickness and enough arm to play the premium position. He can really run and has shown power potential and a solid approach from the right side of the plate. 20. Ethan Wilson, OF, South Alabama Wilson was an under-the-radar high school player who was a multi-sport standout in Alabama and went undrafted before heading to South Alabama. He served notice that he’ll be worth tracking for the 2021 Draft when he hit 17 homers as a freshman. He has legitimate power from the left side of the plate and fits best in an outfield corner.

Promising. Between him and Wong we might actually have a catcher for the future.