moonslav59

Do you think it's possible many people can love the game for what it is, just like everyone else, yet still really enjoy stats and metrics and complex rating systems? I don't understand how some feel sabermetrics is ruining the game. I don't see how or why. Just watch the game and ignore all the numbers. Hell, they just outlawed the shift, so now one big saber manifestation is no longer visible.

Just becaue Upton is not worth $28M, does not mean not teams want him at the minimum. He still hits lefties pretty well, which Verdugo and JBJ do not. .852 career v L .838 in 2021 .796 in '20- short season BTW, I was all for going after Suzuki, and that was before I knew he could pitch like Ohtani!

WAR doesn't settle any arguments. Hell, we have two different WARs that disagree enough to even cause some new watercooler debates. I guess to some fans enjoy the new toy. Others could care less, and others see it as some sort of infringement on their traditions. BTW, I have never heard a single person or poster say this guy is better that that guy only because WAR says so. They use it to support theirposition the same way someone uses OPS or some old-schooler uses BA and Fldg%.

That's another fault of just using the eye test. I think many baseball fans like to and do talk about who is the best or which player is better than the other. They compare stats, and invariably, someone says, "but player X is a better fielder," and nobody can really quantify if the disparity outweighs the offensive disparity. WAR attempts to do all that by using some pretty sound methods. It sure beats using Fldg% and RF/9 and a host of offensive stats.

True, but if they were allML ready, we'd probably have signed just one from Wacha & Hill. BTW, speaking of Perez, he was in last place on the ERA list from 2017-2021 (500+ IP).

One problem is that some of us don't get so see other comparable players play but 2-3 games a year, and some maybe zero. Others, in our division we might see 10-18 times a year. When speaking about who is the best, it's hard to use the eye test, when wild disparities in sample sizes exist. One advantage of UZR/150 is that it is based on observations of every play in every game.

Playing at half speed might be more dangerous.

If we had some young studs waiting in the wings, I could see a point being made, and I guess nobody saw Houck as a "stud," but I like the Hill signing more than the last 2 Perez signings.

I feel more confident with Hill on the mound than Wacha, The issue might be, can he stay on the mound for over 100 or 140 innings, this year?

You stated we know nothing about baseball for supporting a 42 year old with a strong record of pitching extremely well at an advanced age. If we had chose to spend that $5M on someone else, it still should have been a pitcher- not a hitter. Anyone who knows anything about baseball would know that!

I would add that ERA- or ERA+ is better than just plain old ERA. Park affects and strength of opponents matter a lot. (Also, I arbitrarily set the innings limit at 500 over 5 years, so that eliminated many RP'ers from consideration.) Consider this... ERA Leaders 2017-2021 (500+IP) 1. deGrom 2. Scherzer 3. Kershaw 4. Verlander 5. Buehler 6. Kluber 7. Sale 8. Ryu 9. Cole 10. Strasburg ERA- Leaders 1. deGrom 2. Scherzer 3. Verlander 4. Sale 5. Kluber 6. Kershaw 7. Buehler 8. Ryu 9. Bieber 10. Bauer Now, with 250+ IP ERA- 1. Hader 2. deGrom 3. Scherzer 4. Jansen 5. R Iglesias 6. Verlander 7. L Hendricks 8. Clevinger 9. Treinen 10. Sale WHIP (250+ IP) 1. Hader 2. Verlander 3. C Green 4. deGrom 5. Scherzer 6. Y Petit 7. Jansen 8 Hendricks 9, Kershaw 10. Sale

Yes. My whole point was that looking at the list of the best all around players by WAR vs any other list based on just singular stats, you see that WAR seems more accurate. (Pitching is a little more iffy.)

Not only that, but starting Mata, a guy on the IL would really show you know nothing about the game. Seabold is struggling, mightily, and Groome isn't even above Whitlock, Winckowski and others on the depth chart for starters. Hill has pitched very well for many years. I'll take my chances with him and his measly $5M contract.

My eyes look at batting, fielding and running- not just one hitting stat. Which list represents that?

I guess I don't understand the game.

You know it when you see it. Look at my 4 lists for batters... To me, the WAR list looks most accurate.

Exactly, and though not perfect, I think it works pretty well. If you had to order the top 10 players over the last 5 years, which list looks closer to the right one? Best overall players since 2017 (1500+ PAs): List A 1. Brantley 2. Freeman 3. Blackmon 4. Trout 5. Altuve 6. LeMahieu 7. Soto 8. Rendon 9. J Turner 10. T Turner/JD Martinez List B 1. Trout 2. Betts 3. Jose Ramirez 4. Judge 5. Rendon 6. Lindor 7. Arenado 8. Bregman 9. Yelich 10. Bogaerts List C 1. Trout 2. Soto 3. Judge 4. Harper 5. Freeman 6. JD 7. Acuna Jr. 8. Rendon 9. Betts 10. Yelich List D 1. Betts 2. H Bader 3. Simmons 4. Kiermayer 5. Buxton 6. Judge 7. M Taylor 8. Chapman 9. B Hamilton 10. Gordon (A is BA, B is fWAR, C is OPS & wRC+ and D is UZR/150) ________________________ How about the best pitchers? (500+ IP since 2017) List A 1. deGrom 2. Scherzer 3. Cole 4. Nola 5. Wheeler 6. Sale 7. Morton 8. Verlander 9. Greinke 10. Lynn List B 1. deGrom 2. Scherzer 3. Kershaw 4. Verlander 5. Buehler 6. Kluber 7. Sale 8. Ryu 9. Cole 10. Strasburg List C 1. Sale 2. deGrom 3. Bieber 4. Cole 5. Kershaw 6. Scherzer 7. Kluber 8. Carrasco 9. Strasburg 10. Nola List D 1. Verlander 2. deGrom 3. Scherzer 4. Kershaw 5. Sale 6. Buehler 7. Kluber 8. Cole 9. Greinke 10. Strasburg The pitching lists are harder to rate. (A= fWAR, B= ERA, C=xFIP, D= WHIP)

Of course. I'd bet the gap is less than 1.0 by season's end, and maybe even JBJ equals or betters Renfroe. His dWAR should blow Renfroe away.

It's hard to know with Barnes. I think last year was the first time he was the clear closer for a long stretch, and he was lights out for 4 months. He followed that with 8 bad games and 8 s0-s0 games. He pitched 1 inning in the playoffs. I've always liked Barnes, but I share the concerns everyone seems to have. In many key categories, he's been in the top 20-30% of all RP'ers. In others, he near average, and a select few below average. I'm staying optimistic with him, but I'm not convinced of anything- good or bad.

It's not just about IP... Barnes Pitches throw before AUG 7th: 665 2021 915 2019 852 2018 Pitches per IP by season: 2018: 18.0 (1109/61.2) 2019: 20.4 (1311/64.1) 2020: 19.8 (455/23.0) 2021: 16.8 (919/54.2)

They have Renfroe at 1.7 fWAR and JBJ at 0.1.

His OPS against has been under .706 for 5 seasons and under .666 for 4 of the last 5 seasons. He likely won't be the best closer in '22, but he should be okay to fine. While his 80% save rtae was not great in '21, it wasn't bad, either.

Because he was pitching so well, his pitches thrown were not higher than his norm, by the time August 7th rolled around.

Barnes really just had an awful 8 game stretch- from 8/7 to 8/24 (1.510 OPS against). He wasn't great after that, but not bad. .739 in 8 games from 8/26 to 10/1. It seems so easy for some to think that 9 game stretch is who Barnes is. First 44 games (44 IP): .477 OPS against Next 8 games (4.1 IP) 1.510 Last 8 games (6.1 IP) .739 44 games of greatness, 8 of god-awful and 8 of so-so, and the guy's a bum!

Is Devers? (BTW, I'm fine with keeping Devers at 3B.)