moonslav59

I'm sure a ton of talk show callers share your ideas on trading our stars before they actually were or will be traded.

I never said you said it. I said it, not you. Should I have drawn a picture?

He holds all positions, even contradictory ones, firmly in his grasp, and countless talk show callers agree.

All firmly entrenched in your minds.

We basically traded almost our whole rotation: Lester, Lackey, Douront, and Peavy plus Andrew Miller. We also had another big dump, when we traded AGon, Beckett and Crawford for peanuts, but that was different in many ways. Both "sales" played a part in subsequent rings. It doesn't always have to end badly.

Of course, it's way different, but if we are out of it at the deadline, it makes sense to trade anyone who will be a FA, maybe even some we might want to re-sign, although that rarely happens. It actually does a favor for guys like Bogey, Nate and JD, since they no longer will have a lost comp pick attached to them, next winter- making more teams interested in signing them. This is not a fun time for me and probably no other fans, either, but it might be the best thing to do. You have even said, many times, we should trade guys we know we will not re-sign. Not having a fire sale is what makes no sense, assuming we are out of it.

soxprospects.com projected rosters for 2024 and beyond (assuming no additions): https://www.soxprospects.com/future.htm 2024 (I took out Bogey) Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Pivetta, Bello/Groome/Walter Houck, Barnes, Diekman, Taylor, DHern, Winckowski/Seabold/Mata/Murphy/Ward/Feltman Wong/RHern Casas/Dalbec Yorke/Downs Story/Lugo Arroyo/Arauz Verdugo Duran Jimenez/Decker

Yes, and a sure quality start, if there ever was one.

Yes, we lost over 20 games, because of Devers has made 1-2 more errors than most 3Bmen. You make total sense.

You think they should be buyers if down 10 at the deadline? It makes total sense to have a sale, if that is the case. Now, should the 5th highest spending team ever get in a situation like this? Here is where your point makes sense, but it is what it is. We are here, The sale in 2020 brought us Pivetta, Seabold and others. Holding onto Workman, Hembree, Moreland and others would have been pointless. It sucks when we get to points like this, but it happens, and having a sale makes sense, when it does.

I'm not sure about Mata. I do think Seabold & German are almost auto 2022 candidates. Duran, Casas and Bello are very likely. Wong and Murphy are likely, especially with a fire sale. Maybe Walter, Mata, Downs, Fitzy, RHern...

Expanding the sample size to reach 30 players means 170+ innings at 3B. Devers ranks 11th in UZR/150 at +4.0 He ranks 22nd in DRS at -2, but playing way more innings than many at -1 would likely raise him to near average in DRS/innings. Breaking down the UZR/150, he ranks 3rd in ErrR 16th in DPR 22nd in RngR He ranks 6th in errors, but he's 3rd in innings He has 2 fielding errors (T 14th) and 4 throwing errors (T 1st).

Updated Review of Starters vs Relievers Game-by-Game Starters IP/ER vs Relievers IP/ER SP- RP L 5.0/3 - 5.0/1 (2 ghost runs allowed) L 5.2/4 - 2.1/0 W 3.1/3 - 5.2/1 L 4.1/1 - 3.2/2 W 4.1/3 - 4.2/0 W 5.0/2 - 4.0/5 L 2.0/5 - 7.0/4 W 5.2/0 - 3.1/0 W 5.0/0 - 4.0/1 L 4.2/4 - 4.1/4 W 4.2/1 - 4.1/1 L 4.0/5 - 5.0/1 L 5.0/2 - 4.0/1 W 5.0/2- 4.0/0 L 4.0/0- 5.2/3 L 4.0/ 0- 4.0/5 L 7.0/2- 1.0/4 L 4.2/2- 5.0/3 (plus 1 ghost runner) W 6.0/1- 3.0/0 L 3.0/0- 5.0/0 W 4.0/0- 5.0/1 L 7.0/0- 2.0+/1 (+ ghost runner scored) L 4.1/3- 3.2/6 W 5.2/0- 3.2/0 L 5.0/2- 5.0/7 L 5.0/0- 4.0/8 L 5.0/3- 4.0/1 L 6.0/0-4.0/2 L 2.2/3- 6.1/0 W 3.0/3- 6.0/1 L 6.1/3- 2.3/2 W 7.0/1- 2.0/0 W 6.0/2- 3.0/0 L *pen game* W 5.0/2- 4.0/1 L 1.2/6- 7.1/3 W 9.0/1- n/a (Pivetta CG) W 2.0/4- 7.0/2 W 4.2/2- 4.1/0 W 3.0/5- 6.0/0 W 6.2/2-3.1/1 W 6.0/3-3.0/0 L 5.0/2- 3.0/0 W 4.1/5- 4.2/2 L 6.0/2- 3.0/9 W 9.0/2- n/a L 3.0/4- 6.0/0 W 6.0/1- 3.0/1 L 4.0/6- 5.0/4 L 5.2/0- 3.1/0 W 6.0/0- 3.0/0 The pen has done better in 24 games. The starters have done better in 20, counting 2 CG's where pen did not pitch.. They did about the same in 7 games. The pen as done okay to well in 34 games. The starters have done okay to well in 33 games. I did not count the "pen game" 7-1 loss to the Rangers.

The part that gets me the most is that traditional 9th inning closers only come in a game when we have the lead, and we are 24-3 when going into the 9th with the lead. The most any great 9th inning closer could do is add 3 wins, assuming perfection. Now, we are 0-5 in games entering the 9th tied, but would we have used Whitlock (or Houck) in those games? Are we sure we'd have done much better than 0-5? Our pen woes go way beyond failing closers, and one of the few strengths we've had in the pen are the long relievers. Taking pitchers from those roles and making them closers may or may not have improved our closer record, but what also needs to be factored in, is who replaces those long relief appearances, and how well or badly would they have done? We had a very similar pen, on paper, going into last season. Many posters ranted at how bad it was or was going to be. It had it's ups and downs, but it was not nearly as bad as many felt it was going to be. Bloom chose tp spend elsewhere. He added Strahm and Diekman to replace Ottavino and Andriese (and others), and one could easily think the pen was or would be about the same as 2021, at least on paper. It clearly has done much worse, especially when compared to the first 2-3 months of 2021. Yes, that's on Bloom, and maybe some on Cora for not trying Houck or Whitlock as the closer, but thinking that move would have saved the pen and the team is illogical on many levels.

For what it's worth, here is the soxprospects.com projected arrival times of our top prospects: 2022 1. Casas 5. Duran 11. Seabold 22. Crawford 2023 4. Bello 6. Walter 7. Mata 9. Murphy 10. Winckowski (pitched in MLB this year) 13. Downs 15. Groome 27. Wong (has played in MLB already) 28. German 2024 2. Mayer 14. Rafaela 17. Binelas 20. Jimenez 21. Lugo 23. McDonough 24. T Ward 30. Koss 31. Hamilton 2025 16. Paulino 18. Jordan 25. Bonaci 26. Hickey 29. E Lopez 2026 8. Bleis Other notables: Kavadas, Uberstine, E Bazardo, Z Kelly, Feltman, RHern, VSantos

Our whole society is all about blame, and rarely on oneself, either.

Players on the 40 and still under team control after 2023: Sale Story Whitlock Houck Barnes ($2.25M buyout) Verdugo (last arb) Diekman ($1M buyout) Pivetta (last arb) Cordero (last arb) Dalbec, Davis, DHern & Valdez(2nd of 3 arbs) Scheiber, Winckowski, Seabold, Wong Duran, Bello, Mata, Downs, Groome, RHern Arauz, Crawford, Danish Arroyo (last arb, if he's not DFA'd by then) Sawamura (3rd of 4th arb) Add some rule 5 eligible players, this winter and next I see dozens of holes coming up. Again, many will be filled through free agency or extensions, but to win consistently, we'll need plenty of help from the farm. It's just stating the obvious. It's not rocket science. Yes, if Bloom has not gotten the farm to a point where they can fill several big need areas over the next 5 years, his days will be numbered. Dah!

Hello. Did I say "unfilled?" I actually said free agency will likely fill most of them. Try reading the whole post, for once. It wasn't all that long, even for your attention span.

Maybe another Diekman. Maybe 2 other Strahms.

Like what they said about Pedro.

The problem is, if it takes 3-5 years to fill all those holes, you've wasted 2-3 years of paying the stars mega dollars. DD and Bloom did a pretty good job rebuilding the farm to a point where it appears we will be getting some sporadic contributions over the next 4-6+ years, but it's never guaranteed, and just how many holes will we need to fill? We'll have a bout 10 starting this winter. Yes, free agency can and should be able to fill some or most of them, but without much low cost farm infusions, I doubt we can ever reach the promise land, let alone have any sort of sustained winning system, unless Henry lets the Sox become the Dodgers East. (Which is what some fans seem to think the solution is.)

The money part of the deal was significant, too.

It's not so easy to rebuild a farm system from bottom 5 in just a few short years, especially under the system we have now, where throwing money at unsignable draftees is not possible anymore and IFA money is limited. It's hard to tell how well Bloom has done rebuilding the farm. Many of our current top prospects were actually DD additions, but he hasn't traded away many prospects, and he's added a few by trade- like Winckowski, Seabold, German, Binelas, Hamilton, Downs and Wong. The jury is outq, but the farm is rising in the rankings and improving our odds that we will start getting some helpful, youth infusion into the 26 man roster, soon and into the extended future. That was not an easy feat, despite the high draft pick we got by sucking in 2020. Nobody else drafted Mayer ahead of us.

The last week, he's looked like one, but yes, overall, he's been fine on D, this year, honestly.

You crack me up!