moonslav59

Some might say Kopech is now a star, but the guy between Ben and Bloom dealt him for freakin' Chris Sale!

They go "large" not "long."

Yes, but their return value is affected.

Not many players lose a tremendous amount of value in just 2 weeks, unless an injury is involved. Vaz is gaining value. Kike has been hurt forever. Nate has come back but sucked, so maybe he has lost the most. Wacha and Hill will be on the IL at the deadline. Strahm has sucked for more than 2 weeks. JD being hurt doesn’t help. Some of these guys were not likely to get us much, but I’m hopeful Bloom will do well- like Pivetta & Seabold and not Potts, Wallace and others.

Not really realistic to go even 5-6

Others are on the IL with no hope of being back before the deadline.

Each loss brings a sliver of a sliver.

We had a lot of the same studs in 2018 and 2019 (and beyond), so this theory is highly questionable.

Nobody seems to love the game more than Devers. I can't see him easing up, based on the fact that he was a little chubby years ago.

To go back to the first post: I may be naive or overly optimistic, but I think this looks like a solid core or players and prospects to build upon. I had left some prospects off the list. Here is the updated version of our 2023 and beyond foundation... SP: _____, Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Winckowski Crawford, Bello, Mata, Seabold, Groome, Walter, Murphy, Gonzalez, TWard RP: Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, _____, Taylor, Davis, Brasier German, Danish, DHern C: _____, Wong R Hernandez, Cottam, Hickey 1B: _____, Dalbec/Cordero Casas, Cordero or Dalbec, Jordan, Kavadas 2B: Story Yorke, Paulino 3B: Devers Binelas SS: ______, Downs Mayer, Lugo, Bonaci LF: Verdugo, Duran CF: ______ Rafaela, Koss RF: Refsnyder Jimenez, McDonough If we spend $95-110M, this winter, I think we can maybe get better than we are, now, while maintaining an even brighter longer term outlook as our farm hands continue to impress and grow. Between Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Yorke, Bleis, Kavadas, Hickey, Paulino, Binelas, Jordan and others, I think we will have enough farm infusions, spread out, over the next 1-4 years that will allow us to spend more at other key positions. We've heard a lot about the failure of our farm to produce top pitchers, and those ideas are not unfounded, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel, as well as already getting some promising results from Houck, Whitlock, Winckowski, Crawford and others. All we need are 2-3 significant contributions from a large amount of promising young pitchers beyond Houck & Whitlock: Winckowski Crawford Bello Mata Walter Murphy Seabold Gonzalez German or from some longer shots like... Song Groome T Ward Drohan Bastardo Uberstine I'm still very hopeful about the 2023 team, but more so about 2024 and beyond.

Is anyone still on the no sell bandwagon?

We don't know how anyone will react after signing a mega deal, but I see no indication, Devers will take his foot off the pedal. Also, I think he has worked hard on his defense and improved his footwork. He seems to lose focus for a week here and here, on defense, and that is worrisome, but to me is a keeper, if ever there was one.

The bright spot to this season.

I'm not getting your points. If players do mit on their own, then what's the beef with Cora? Blame Bloom for getting players that don't "do it on their own."

We may end up below sixth in payroll by year's end. Also, we may be 6th in payroll, but we're also just 4.5 games behind the 6th best record in MLB. A few weeks ago, we were 3rd or 4th best.

They both will end up getting more than either of us would suggest, but I'm just saying, I'll likely like Soto's deal more, due mostly to age and projected future vlaue.

Half the line-up are scrubs. Our 10th to 11th starter on the depth chart on opening day is starting. Expecting Cora to work miracles might be expecting too much. Sure, the criticism of lack-luster effort is warranted and fair, but does anyone think we should be winning with these scrubs?

What if Henry's expectations for Bloom were something like this: 84 wins in 2021 88 wins in 2022 92 wins in 2023 A WS top contender by 2024? Of course, it's not as simple as wins, the state of the budget, farm and foundation of winning players matters more than wins, but just follow my point. We exceeded in 2021, and maybe we wont be far enough from 88 wins, this year for henry to blow a gasket and blow everything up, like he did after ben's 3 last place finishes. If you comb ine 2021 and 2022, maybe Bloom has met Henry's expectation. Bloom has had one major signing, and even Story's deal is no where near Price's or even as much as Pablo+HRam's combined expenditure, which maybe weren't even Ben's top choice signings. I guess what I'm saying is that maybe Henry did not expect Bloom to produce a top contending team by 2022. His budgets did not show signs that Henry was all in, like he was in 2018 and other seasons before that.

I wasn't hinting at spending less. I was hinting at maybe taking a strategy of having more moderate contracts than ever, but less or eventually no large and long deals at all. This doesn't mean we aren't trying to win: it could mean we are trying a different way. When Henry hired Ben, I thought he was moving towards no mega deals, having a strong farm and looking for steady competitive teams. The three last place finishes caused him to scrap that plan, but maybe, this time, he'll give it a longer chance to work. It's not easy building that type of team and system in 4 years. Even 5 might be unrealistic to hope for a ring-worthy type team. This winter will not only be telling for Bloom, but for Henry as well, and the whole organizational blueprint. I'll be pissed, if Devers walks, but if we are highly competitive, soon afterwards, I know I'll forget. If 2021, a season where we didn't even make the WS, helped me get over losing Betts, I'm not so sure I'll be forever crushed, if Devers bolts. Just win, baby!

It was a tough choice, but I feel like talking about next year has risen above talking about this year. I have not totally given up on this year, but I'm thinking way more about 2023 and beyond than the upcoming playoffs and our chances of making them.

To be honest, I don't really pay attention to agent demands. He's not getting anywhere near $645M. Even $500M/17 is a massive reach. What is Judge asking for?

I guess the 2018 and 2021 teams motivated themselves.

A lot of bitterness, here, Max. The comments on Devers, I feel, are uncalled for. To me, he's a hard worker and one of the few players I see that seems to really love the game. I'm glad nobody tried to "teach" him how to hit. Sometimes the best lessons are the ones never taught. He's a special player and hitter. His unique approach is part of what makes him great, IMO.

I'm out of the loop, recently. I watched the game with no sound, as my 95 year old dad, was sleeping. He had a mild stroke, last Sunday night. Disregard my post.

The one year we won without a mega contract was 2013, and many view that win as a fluke. Can we create more flukes?