moonslav59

We had a lot of the same studs in 2018 and 2019 (and beyond), so this theory is highly questionable.

Nobody seems to love the game more than Devers. I can't see him easing up, based on the fact that he was a little chubby years ago.

To go back to the first post: I may be naive or overly optimistic, but I think this looks like a solid core or players and prospects to build upon. I had left some prospects off the list. Here is the updated version of our 2023 and beyond foundation... SP: _____, Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Winckowski Crawford, Bello, Mata, Seabold, Groome, Walter, Murphy, Gonzalez, TWard RP: Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, _____, Taylor, Davis, Brasier German, Danish, DHern C: _____, Wong R Hernandez, Cottam, Hickey 1B: _____, Dalbec/Cordero Casas, Cordero or Dalbec, Jordan, Kavadas 2B: Story Yorke, Paulino 3B: Devers Binelas SS: ______, Downs Mayer, Lugo, Bonaci LF: Verdugo, Duran CF: ______ Rafaela, Koss RF: Refsnyder Jimenez, McDonough If we spend $95-110M, this winter, I think we can maybe get better than we are, now, while maintaining an even brighter longer term outlook as our farm hands continue to impress and grow. Between Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Yorke, Bleis, Kavadas, Hickey, Paulino, Binelas, Jordan and others, I think we will have enough farm infusions, spread out, over the next 1-4 years that will allow us to spend more at other key positions. We've heard a lot about the failure of our farm to produce top pitchers, and those ideas are not unfounded, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel, as well as already getting some promising results from Houck, Whitlock, Winckowski, Crawford and others. All we need are 2-3 significant contributions from a large amount of promising young pitchers beyond Houck & Whitlock: Winckowski Crawford Bello Mata Walter Murphy Seabold Gonzalez German or from some longer shots like... Song Groome T Ward Drohan Bastardo Uberstine I'm still very hopeful about the 2023 team, but more so about 2024 and beyond.

Is anyone still on the no sell bandwagon?

We don't know how anyone will react after signing a mega deal, but I see no indication, Devers will take his foot off the pedal. Also, I think he has worked hard on his defense and improved his footwork. He seems to lose focus for a week here and here, on defense, and that is worrisome, but to me is a keeper, if ever there was one.

The bright spot to this season.

I'm not getting your points. If players do mit on their own, then what's the beef with Cora? Blame Bloom for getting players that don't "do it on their own."

We may end up below sixth in payroll by year's end. Also, we may be 6th in payroll, but we're also just 4.5 games behind the 6th best record in MLB. A few weeks ago, we were 3rd or 4th best.

They both will end up getting more than either of us would suggest, but I'm just saying, I'll likely like Soto's deal more, due mostly to age and projected future vlaue.

Half the line-up are scrubs. Our 10th to 11th starter on the depth chart on opening day is starting. Expecting Cora to work miracles might be expecting too much. Sure, the criticism of lack-luster effort is warranted and fair, but does anyone think we should be winning with these scrubs?

What if Henry's expectations for Bloom were something like this: 84 wins in 2021 88 wins in 2022 92 wins in 2023 A WS top contender by 2024? Of course, it's not as simple as wins, the state of the budget, farm and foundation of winning players matters more than wins, but just follow my point. We exceeded in 2021, and maybe we wont be far enough from 88 wins, this year for henry to blow a gasket and blow everything up, like he did after ben's 3 last place finishes. If you comb ine 2021 and 2022, maybe Bloom has met Henry's expectation. Bloom has had one major signing, and even Story's deal is no where near Price's or even as much as Pablo+HRam's combined expenditure, which maybe weren't even Ben's top choice signings. I guess what I'm saying is that maybe Henry did not expect Bloom to produce a top contending team by 2022. His budgets did not show signs that Henry was all in, like he was in 2018 and other seasons before that.

I wasn't hinting at spending less. I was hinting at maybe taking a strategy of having more moderate contracts than ever, but less or eventually no large and long deals at all. This doesn't mean we aren't trying to win: it could mean we are trying a different way. When Henry hired Ben, I thought he was moving towards no mega deals, having a strong farm and looking for steady competitive teams. The three last place finishes caused him to scrap that plan, but maybe, this time, he'll give it a longer chance to work. It's not easy building that type of team and system in 4 years. Even 5 might be unrealistic to hope for a ring-worthy type team. This winter will not only be telling for Bloom, but for Henry as well, and the whole organizational blueprint. I'll be pissed, if Devers walks, but if we are highly competitive, soon afterwards, I know I'll forget. If 2021, a season where we didn't even make the WS, helped me get over losing Betts, I'm not so sure I'll be forever crushed, if Devers bolts. Just win, baby!

It was a tough choice, but I feel like talking about next year has risen above talking about this year. I have not totally given up on this year, but I'm thinking way more about 2023 and beyond than the upcoming playoffs and our chances of making them.

To be honest, I don't really pay attention to agent demands. He's not getting anywhere near $645M. Even $500M/17 is a massive reach. What is Judge asking for?

I guess the 2018 and 2021 teams motivated themselves.

A lot of bitterness, here, Max. The comments on Devers, I feel, are uncalled for. To me, he's a hard worker and one of the few players I see that seems to really love the game. I'm glad nobody tried to "teach" him how to hit. Sometimes the best lessons are the ones never taught. He's a special player and hitter. His unique approach is part of what makes him great, IMO.

I'm out of the loop, recently. I watched the game with no sound, as my 95 year old dad, was sleeping. He had a mild stroke, last Sunday night. Disregard my post.

The one year we won without a mega contract was 2013, and many view that win as a fluke. Can we create more flukes?

I realize the majority of long term deals suck for the team. Another significant percent are barely close to a wash. Only a small percentage work out well for the team. I'm not against the general philosophy of not ever signing anyone to large and long deals, but I do think there are times when an exception is needed. I think Betts was one to make an exception for, and now I think Devers is. It has a lot to do with their ages. I'm not for going long on Bogey. Large, yes, but not long. Maybe we could have spread the money out and still won, but I don't see us winning in 2004 or 2007 without Manny. Many feel we don't win in 2018 without Price.

We also signed Manny to 8.

I don't have much faith in any of these guys, except for maybe Refsnyder, who deserves a longer look, in hopes he's a late bloomer with more in the tank. I'm just saying, these guys will play out the season to see, if there is a glimmer of hope to hold onto one or two of them, perhaps just a little longer. If Casas was ready, maybe Dalbec and Cordero would play less, but I'm not sure we'll see Casas, this summer. I'd like to see Fitzy, Wong, R Hern, Stewart and some pitchers like German and maybe Murphy & Groome for a bit.

I get that some use the hyperbole defense, but he's so way off with his facts, it's not even worth addressing. Ignoring him is the best thing we all can do.

At this point, I have more hope in Luis de la Rosa, Freddy Valdez or Grant Gambrell than Franchy.

Not really, but if they could have played, they should have played. They can both be rested everyday after the deadline, if we lose more games with them (and others) on the bench.

...and wait until Holmes returns to his "suckiness."