moonslav59

Many saw it coming, but didn't expect it to crash down so suddenly like it did.

Fans might not realize that building a number 1 system if often the best way to win a WS, and they don't have the patience to wait it out.

That seems like the best simplified answer out there. I agree. I think there is more to it, that maybe we will never find out, but some changes need to be made on the decision-making process and keeping up with the changing market and rule changes. We'll need a near repeat of 2013's everything goes right season to have a chance in 2023, an d unless we make at least 2 more significant additions, this winter, the odds will be slim.

Many fans were not aware Pedro's arm was literally held together by a thread, when we lost him. Many were pissed. They were pissed we lost DeLowe, even Bronson Arroyo. I know Beltre was a one year guy, but fans were pissed, then, too. I was happy when Jake left- others were irate. I'm not sugar coating the loss of Betts and Bogey and maybe Devers. I'm not saying we look like we will be winning anytime soon. I felt that way right before 2013, too. I'm just saying, winning would help us get over these losses- not that I predict we will be winning real soon.

Many moments, and maybe much more to come, if he can play 155 games at 2B.

Who is the quote from, and has it been confirmed? If it is confirmed, could it just be a negotiating tool, or a statement made before another counter offer was made from the Sox?

No, 26% is not good, but I truly don't think it's 1%. Why are we believing "galaxies apart?" These reports have turned out to be rubbish, so many times, yet we keep giving them cred. Certainly, we may be miles apart, and it wouldn't shock me, if we were. Maybe, I have too much faith in the power of fanbase angst and how management sometimes changes their plan based on severe fanbase anger or the threat of anger. These guys would have to be in a cocoon, isolated in a sound proof room in an underground bunker to not feel the massive disgust in Sox Nation. Not doing anything about it seems like a less likely option, to me. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe my rose colored glasses are clouding my vision. Maybe my optimism is getting the better of me, but I just can't believe this winter's significant moves are over or nearly over. The way things have gone, so far, I won't be shocked if all we do is add Seth Lugo and sign or trade for a cheap defensive SS and call it a winter, but I just can't see them being that blind.

Yes, we purged 80% of a nice rotation plus Andrew Miller and made the playoffs 1.5 years, later. Fans were not happy after those trades, to say the least. Lester was "homegrown" and beloved by fans. He loved Boston and how they stuck with him through his bout with cancer. It was not a happy ending, and fans/posters still bitch about how we handled his departure, but winning helped ease that pain. Winning sooner is much better than later. The 2021 season seemed to help with the loss of Betts, Price and Kimbrel, but it can turn sour, real quick as we see, now.

There is still ample time and options for adding a SS and solving this whole mess at middle IF. Maybe the options dwindle, if we are seeking only a 1 year contract, and that's what the hold up is, but I agree: don't risk blowing out Story's arm trying to use him as a one year "bridge" to Mayer. In all honesty, I'd rather we just suck at SS and play Arroyo there than risk Story's future. It's weird how we dumped Park & Downs. I have to think a SS addition is on the horizon, but maybe it's just wishful thinking.

It sure doesn't look like it, but it didn't in 2013, either, and fans were restless that winter-spring. I'm not predicting winning, anytime soon. My point was just that winning erases the anger and angst pretty quickly. I do think the foundation and farm are stronger than they were after 2019, but we have a ways to go, and it seems like we have been heavy on quantity over quality. I thought this was the winter to reverse that quantity vs quality dynamic or balance, but it doesn't look like now was the time. I'm not so sure if it ever will be. It seems they may never go large and long, again, and I'm talking much larger than Story's deal and 3-4 years longer than Yoshida's deal. They once drew a line on not signing pitchers over 30 and ended up breaking their own rule, not too long afterwards. Maybe something similar will happen, again.

Maybe, they allowed DD to just go ahead and make nearly any move he wanted, and merely had to check-in on deals like Price and the Sale extension (no time constraints on Sale). Maybe, after all the failed, recent big contracts, the upper brass instituted a more thorough check point that turned into more of a roadblock.

Hey, people are looking for a spot for Bobby Dee, or should I say Booby Dee, and he did play some 2B , last year!!!

Yes. He's probably our 7th or 8th RP'er in 2023. Maybe they think they can tweak something to help him improve. Other teams seem to do that all the time, and we do have the Schreiber example on our side.

Indeed, and it took a long time for the winning to erase that pain, in that case. We lost Pedro and won, afterwards. We had a purge of our 2007 WS ace, Beckett and AGon in 2012, and won the v ery next year. We purged nearly our whole rotation- a damn good one, too- in 2014, plus Andrew Miller and won a ring 4 years later. Fans were not happy, many times after losing stars. I'm not saying this time will be different, and if we don't start winning, soon, it will be different, but my point is, winning helps us forget those losses real quickly.

They may have a hand in it, that's why I added, "IMO."

Not all throwing errors lead to runners advancing, and most won't score, anyway, but 20 more errors was just pulled out of a hat. I could have said 15 and 30 less outs. Plus, some SSs make over 100 more plays than others. In 2022, Mateo made 598 plays as compared to some who made just 480 (Kiner-Falefa) and Pena (493.) I could have chosen better numbers to make my point.

It only matters, if you are losing. I get the fact that the way we are losing our stars has changed from past glory days, but people weren't happy when many star players departed the team, before. Was anyone upset that the 2028 team had just 3 players from the 2013 still on it? I believe only Pedey, JBJ and Bogey, who was a late season call-up in 2013, were carry-overs. Yes, we didn't lose Papi to another team, but many people were pissed when Jake went to the Yanks. They were pissed about how we lost Lester and Lackey and Miller,. I'm not trying to sugar coat what's going on, right now. I'm pissed, too, but winning will erase much of these bad feelings. The main problem, now, IMO, is that nobody sees us moving towards winning, but they didn't in 2013, either, after a pretty big roster purge the summer before.

IMO, SS range has always been the most important aspect when compared to arm strength or accuracy. A SS that gets to 50 to 100 more balls than others but makes 20 more throwing errors plus 40 less outs due to a weaker arm is still much better. I'd love to see us get a top defensive SS. Maybe Yoshida, Turner and comebacks from Kike, Story and slumpers like Bobby Dee and Dugo can make up for the offense lost by the departing Bogey & JD. If they come up a little short, perhaps the better D can outweigh that. Some highly esteemed poster repeated over and over how we failed to replace Renfroe's RBIs. I wonder, if we'll hear about the combined 135 RBIs of Bogey and JD needing to be replace and being replaced.

Maybe his bosses demand he wait for their feedback, and they are dragging their feet. We don't know. I do wonder, if there were deals we would have made and did not due to delays in decision-making. That would be a serious issue, but I tend to think, they are just being misers- perhaps waiting for another time to "pounce-" perhaps not.

Yes, of course, but we may choose to lessen the long term AAV by $2-3M by overpaying him during his last arb year- 2023. We have budget space to extend him starting in 2023 and sign Kluber and Andrus. Just do it! Maybe we sign Kluber, Andrus and Fulmer and have the extension start in 2024. Maybe we do none of this.

We all know squat about what will happen, next. Every move made and not made, this winter has essentially been blindsided ones. If the top brass does not feel the angst of their fan base is as high as ever, or at least since the Sullivan purge, and feel a great need to stop the bleeding, even if it goes against "the plan," whatever it truly is, then they are going to suffer for this choice.

Not at all. IMO, we have a 40-50% chance of extending Devers. I think that may be the reason we still ]have so much money left under the tax line. Certainly, I could be wrong, but I think the chances ar much greater than 1% and closer to 50% than 1%.

I can name 3-4 teams that would make offers. I'm still thinking we extend him by opening day. May 1st, at the latest.

I meant Pedro not Pedey. My bad.

LOL, JD and Beni were real long term, too. JD was not homegrown, so what was the criteria? Ellsbury, Pedro and even Beckett lasted longer than both.