moonslav59

One or the other, and I can see why people choose the Sox.

So we all agree: $400M to Betts $300M to Bogey $350M to Devers Maybe the rest of the roster is filled with Webers, Andrieses, Marwins and Santana's but hey we have our beloved stars to root for as we lose 90 games, every year. Not sure it would have to be that way, but it very well could have been had JH kept the budget like he has the last 4 years.

Are you sure that report is accurate? If it is, the FO is more F'd up than I thought.

I don't disagree, and I want JH to offer what it takes to get Devers. I'm not sure $400M/14 is what it will take, and I'd have severe reservations about a contract like that, but my point was ab out how a major fan revolt would work out. Do you think JH would see a massive revolt in progress and it would force him to sign Devers, when he planned not to? I'm not sure, but I'd think not.

Good point, but sometimes I feel like, "with fans like these, who needs Yankee fans?"

I get that. It doesn't mean they made a mistake, if their intention was never to offer what the knew B orA$SS demanded. It means they did not value him like others did. It means that will be proven to be a mistake or not, later.

Fixed that for you.

Back atcha!

To me, the way they made this mistake was worse than the Lester, Betts and Bogey instances which span over 2 GMs. I think they sent Fisk his contract a day late, and he became a FA. The Lynn trade, at least brought us some talent back, as did the Burleson & Hobson deal for Lansford, Clear and Miller, but fan anger was intense, back then.

They did make a pretty big offer. I'd have gone way more, but it's not like the Lester and reported Bogey offers.

Sox still have big questions surrounding: 1. Will there be an addition to the rotation? Yes, trade Dugo and Murphy to MIA for AGarcia, Luzardo & Rojas 2. What do do about 2b/ss/cf? Trade Dugo and Murphy to MIA for AGarcia, Luzardo & Rojas 3. Will Verdugo really be the fulltime RF? Trade Dugo and Murphy to MIA for AGarcia, Luzardo & Rojas 4. Catcher acquisition was a big priority initially, are they still going to get one? TOR is shopping catchers. They need OF, but I just traded Dudo. Duran & scraps...? 5. Raffy extension or trade? YES! DEVERS FOREVERS!

I'm not sure any GM would have paid JD $7M more than what he got. Maybe on a 2 year deal for $17M.

You simply don't understand English. I'm convinced. I was calling notin's ridiculous statement a "gaffe." I knew you'd fall back on claiming what you said had it's own special meaning only to you. For whatever reason, you can never just say, "That is not what I meant." Post 2353 (iortiz): Bloom is hiring only wounded old dogs. Going to be a long season again. Post 2355 (you): Already did with Pax, and Frail. There is no alternative meaning, here. Words have meanings. You responded directly to a post about Bloom hiring "wounded old dogs" and claimed Bloom hired "Frail." "I know what I'm saying" is a cop out. Just fess up, for once in your life. You made a mistake. We all do. There is no shame in saying I messed up or even, I did not mean it that way. You can't even do that. The main difference in the "gotcha game" you call it, is that when you call us out for making a mistake, we admit it. That does not stop you from b ringning them up, over and over, but once someone admits to a mistake, bring it up again and again seems futile or juvenile. I don't even recall the Devers DH statement, but it does sound ridiculous, if he said it that way, but I'm not sure what that has to do with you saying Bloom hired Frail.

Method #1: Change the subject. Point out other posters' gaffes, sometimes from long ago, so yours are hidden or forgotten.

Even if somehow that happens, do you really think JH will decide to spend like SD, PHI, NYM, TEX & NYY? It seems like that is what JH has to do to be in the good graces of many fans, right now. I try to be optimistic, but I'm not sure that would work. JH might cut the budget and or sell the team to someone who installs a $100-$150M budget.

I'm not even sure there ever was a late effort on Bogey. I never felt the late effort with Lester was genuine, and if there was one with Bogey, I'll probably feel the same about that. I'm thinking, the Sox heard the ball park amounts being discussed with the Padres, and we never even made another offer.

So, basically just stop being a Sox fan. Sorry- not happening. Even if your plan was carried out- talk about a miracle, it would not cause the changes you hope it would. They'd cut the player budget.

The Ottavino & German trade was not bad and could get a lot better. The Diekman for McGuire trade was good, even as just a salary dump. If McGuire works out, it's a steal. The Vaz and Groome deals are still largely unknown, but I'm not holding out hope on Hamilton or Binelas or Winckowski and the far away prospects we got for Beni. 5 years of Verdugo and maybe something from Wong could be viewed as okay for one short season of Betts, but it's hard to see it that way. Nothing for Lester and Bogey hurts more, to me.

To the extreme of tearing down players with innuendos and whatever you want to call that? I didn't mean those statements to say nobody should feel negative or that there is nothing to feel negative about. I'm feeling negative, too, much of the time I'm thinking of our winter moves and non moves, but to me, it's going too extreme. That's just me. People said I went to extreme giving up on the 2022 team before nearly everyone else, so I'm not trying to come across as holier than thou, but the winter moves are not over, yet. It sucked losing Bogey, but it's not like it was totally unexpected. The mood was rather cheery after the Yoshida signing, even though most of us still felt keeping Bogey was a longshot, but the minute he signed with the Padres, the loss sunk in deeply and negativity went into severe mode. It's understandable, but I didn 't expect personal attacks on our current players and the GM for acquiring them.

Well said. I do think the Sullivan purges had me feeling about this badly. Not sending Fisk his contract on time, which allowed him to become a FA has to be one of, if not the worst mistakes ever made by a Sox GM. He could have just traded him! Losing Betts sucked, but I do think we offered a fair contract and then got what we could for him. The Lester fiasco still hurts. There are some unknowns on Bogey, like what were his demands, but that looks like a total cluster. The Beni, JBJ, Vaz moves are baseball, to me. Those types of trades have always been made. Some of the purges of that great 70's teams were due to clashed with the manager: Bill Lee, Bernie Carbo and maybe Cecil Cooper, too. But the loss of Lynn, Burleson, Tiant (to the Yanks, no less) and even guys like Hobson was a very low point in Sox management history. These were two different eras, but that was real bad.

Yes, some players will get hurt in 2023, no doubt, but I do think we can expect less than 2022 (and maybe more than 2021.) 38 J Turner (just turned 38 and should DH) He's had 420+ PAs in 7 of 8 yrs and 530+ in 3 of 4. 36 Martin (a key pen piece, but we also have Jansen, Houck & Schreiber) 34 Brasier (may be DFA'd soon) 34 Jansen (been solid and durable for 12 straight seasons) 33 Sale & Paxton (They are what they are.) 32 Barnes (looked to be coming on at the end of '22) 31 Refsnyder (can hardly say he's worn out) 30 Joely, Ort and Kike (still in prime) The rest are 29 or younger. I'm not talking Sale and Paxton. I'm thinking counting on both to combined for 25-33 starts is likely wishful thinking, but guys like Kike and Story are not at ages where you expect them to repeat their lost time in 2022. It looked like Devers was playing hurt through August, and at his age, one might think he's about to have a career year. If you look at the ages of our key players, some do jump out as higher risk, but our team is not "old."

Words have different meanings to him, so there is that, like when he said I "don't like Bogey, of his defense either," that meant just his defense. He doubled and tripled down on what he said meaning something totally different from its actual meaning rather than just say, "That's what I meant to say."

No. Now, this is "strike two," as you like to call it. We were responding to a post that said this... Bloom is hiring only wounded old dogs. To which you replied, Already did with Pax, and Frail. No, Bloom did not do that with "Frail. Now, I expect you to go on and say we are overanalyzing of double down on being wrong rather than admit you made yet another mistake. It's what you do.

Getting a comp pick for Devers plus one year from him vs whatever we get in trade? If I liked our chances in 2023, I might agree, and I guess if we sign Andrus and Kluber and trade for a solid SP and maybe Dugo for a real RF'er, I'd be more inclined to agree. Maybe if we just do 2 or 3 of the 4 things I listed, I might have more optimism, but it seems like we will be wasting a chance at getting better, long term on false hopes of a miracle in '23.

Certainly the most likely scenario. The Sox just never felt Bogey was anywhere near what BorA$$ wanted. Maybe part of their decision was based on thinking he'd never get close to what was demanded, and if that's the case, they sure got that wrong. If their setting value system was so far off, at least on Bogey, there is a chance they are proven right, but it seems like all the big ticket players are being grossly overpaid, so a choice needs to be made, or already has been made, to either bite the bullet or go with more second tier FAs over frontline ones. Maybe not quite the extreme quantity over quality I've been calling it but never top quality, if it is expensive. To win under that system, you gotta have an incredibly strong farm system- top to bottom. Scouts, developers and people able to spot the right guys to trade for. The RHerns, Binelases and Winckowskis aren't getting the job done. It took the Astros many years to get to where they got, and tanking for a few made it go more quickly than it will probably take the Sox, but it does look like that part of the planterm. has been the highest priority since day one of Bloom's term. It's hard to know, if we'll ever come close to the talent the Astros system churned out and is still churning out, but it does look like we are trying to get there, and often at the expense of the here and now ML team. We've traded no top prospects under bloom and even during DD's last season. That's 4 years. I'm hopeful we'll start seeing results from the farm, this year, and most of Bloom's farm additions are slated for arrival in 2024 or beyond, but most fans don't really want to hear about 2025 and beyond hopes and dreams. They don't even want to wait until 2024. I don't either. I thought this could be the winter- Bogey or no Bogey, where we flip from quantity to quality, but for some reason, the Sox top brass has a different view or plan. They won't be honest about their plan, and that makes it worse. For some reason, they think lying and deceiving the fanbase will make things better. They couldn't be more wrong. I'm not sure they know how or have the will to change their stripes.