moonslav59

It sure looks that way, but maybe this time will be different. I'm trying to stay hopeful, but there is not much to base it on, in terms of keeping Devers around. We better not lose him for a comp pick and hopes of some one year window belief. At least we got something for Betts, Vaz and Beni- maybe not enough, but we tried. 4th round comp picks are not "trying."

Probably not as much as Bloom's name.

But Nate was loved by all those fans on talk radio!

Strike one! DD extended Frail. I was thinking Nat, JD, Wacha and Hill- all old, hurt or both. Seems like bringing back the team many hated was what many wanted.

Should he have brought back our wounded and old dogs?

You call me out for trying to defend Bloom on things I disagree on, and yet you tear down Sox players based on innuendos. Get lost! You remind me of Swihart's Ghost who literally bashed 35 out of the 40 men on the roster and everyone from the ballboy to Henry, and called himself a Sox fan. What a joke!

Where have I even hinted at anyone needing to feel good about this? I have said it sucks and am not happy. I'm fine with saying good bye to Nate, Vaz and Beni. JD is over the hill. Bringing him back makes us no better. I was happy JBJ signed with the Brewers and was glad Bloom let him go. Not sure if you counted him in your "6-7 Players," but he was my favorite player. I was pissed at Bloom for bringing him back, and apparently that is being an apologist in your warped mind. I hated seeing Betts go and suggested offering him more than anyone on this board. I happen to not blame Bloom for Mookie's departure and don't view it as being a Bloom apologist. I don't think Bogey was worth close to what he got, and agree we messed up the whole situation, but I would not sign him to $200M/8, even know. Nothing to do with Bloom of not loving Bogey as much as you do. I'm the driver of the Devers Forvers bandwagon and supported the Sale extension, so does that make me a DD apologist? I'll be super pissed if Devers is not extended, but I don't think it will be Bloom's call. If that's being an apologist, you need to look up what the word means. I hated seeing many Sox players go. We've won afterwards, so I'm not throwing in the towel over losing Bogey. I'm going to root for my Sox and try to be optimistic. You and others can go on choosing negativity and wallowing in the mire. That doesn't make me happy with what has happened, but I'm not giving up on my team. Why don't you go root for the Dodgers. They have more players you love.

I notice your intense negativity and morbid views on a team you apparently are a fan of.

The negativity is going beyond what I could have ever expected. This is very sad.

I'd like to hope we will have some significant additions before opening day, and of course the Devers situation is on everyone's mind. It might be too early to start looking at our roster in depth and comparing it to past teams. I already did a brief comp with the 2022 team but we can improve on 2022 and still come up sort of making the playoffs or better. Here is a comp to the 2021 team, and maybe this will be more telling. Catcher .686 OPS (Vaz .640/ Plawecki .780 in 2021) McGuire and Wong- close to even. 1B: .761 OPS (.768 Dalbec + 8 others) Casas and Dalbec- close to even 2B: .777 OPS (1.052 Kike/.764 Arroyo/.511 Marwin & 8 others) Story should do better, but he may be at SS SS: .822 OPS (Bogey .855) ??? Massive edge to Bogey 3B: .909 OPS (Devers .902) Devers about equal LF: .695 OPS (.772 Dugo/ .641 JD .472 Cordero) Yoshida should be a plus CF: .678 OPS (.671 Kike/ .806 Dugo/.590 Duran) Kike should be better RF: .803 OPS (.824 Renfroe/ .793 Dugo) Dugo & Ref should be worse DH: .906 OPS (.945 JD) J Turner & others should be worse. The everyday 9? 3 better, 3 about the same, 3 worse Pitching by IP in 2021: (ERA+) 182 Nate 125 > Sale is likely a minus 158 ERod 99 > Paxton is likely a minus 155 Pivetta 103 > Pivetta is even 137 Richards 96 > Whitlock is likely a big plus 114 Perez 99 > Bello is likely a plus 43 Sale 149 > ??? hard to know Rotation might end up even 73 Whitlock 239 > Jansen would be hard to beat the '21 GW - minus 69 Houck 133 > Houck about the same 62 Ottavino 112 > Martin - plus 55 Barnes 124 > Barnes- minus 53 Sawamura 154> Schreiber- equal/plus 48 Taylor 138 > Joely - minus 40 DHern 140> Mills -??? 40 Valdez 81> Brasier -??? 37 Andriese 78 > Taylor/Crawford - ??? 25 Robles/24 Rios/20 Workman >>> ??? Pen looks about even, too. Maybe, I'm being generous, but I think the team, right now could be viewed as being close to the 2021 team, but that drop off at SS, DH and Ace is pretty steep.

Over $100M for Yoshida does not fit that mold. Not that many months ago, he signed Story to $140M. Are these guys child molsters?

I'm not happy we lose our fan faves. I wasn't all that upset losing Beni and felt "losing" JBJ was the right thing. It was bringing back that shocked me. Losing Betts was worse than Lester, but the Lester oen was handled so badly, it makes it stand out more. I have always said if it comes down to one OR the other, I'd choose Devers over Bogey, but losing both would be devastating. If our new model is to be like Houston, then letting some fan faves go might not be so bad, but we have to win and keep winning to have it all make sense.

Agreed. My position on Devers is well known. I can't imagine a scenario where we will win quickly enough after losing Devers. I do think if somehow we do, things will be back to the norm, which of course is not all that great.

Too bad we didn't sign Bauer or trade for Tatis.

So, you wanted JBJ to stay?

Maybe no further "official offers" were made afterwards, if one side's demand or offer was so far off, the other felt no need to respond. That may have been the case with Bogey.

Here the whole list: Red= one year from half, half or more than half over, but not on my last list 1. Mike Trout, $426,500,000 (2019-30) 2. Mookie Betts, $365,000,000 (2021-32) 3. Aaron Judge, $360,000,000 (2023-31) 4. Carlos Correa, $350,000,000 (2023-35) 5. Francisco Lindor, $341,000,000 (2022-31) 6. Fernando Tatis, $340,000,000 (2021-34) 7. Bryce Harper, $330,000,000 (2019-31) 8. Giancarlo Stanton, $325,000,000 (2015-27) 9. Corey Seager, $325,000,000 (2022-31) 10. Gerrit Cole, $324,000,000 (2020-28) 11. Manny Machado, $300,000,000 (2019-28) … Trea Turner, $300,000,000 (2023-33) 13. Xander Bogaerts, $280,000,000 (2023-33) 14. Alex Rodriguez, $275,000,000 (2008-17) 15. Nolan Arenado, $260,000,000 (2019-26) 16. Alex Rodriguez, $252,000,000 (2001-10) 17. Miguel Cabrera, $248,000,000 (2016-23) 18. Stephen Strasburg, $245,000,000 (2020-26) … Anthony Rendon, $245,000,000 (2020-26) 20. Albert Pujols, $240,000,000 (2012-21) … Robinson Cano, $240,000,000 (2014-23) 22. Joey Votto, $225,000,000 (2014-23) 23. David Price, $217,000,000 (2016-22) 24. Clayton Kershaw, $215,000,000 (2014-20) … Christian Yelich, $215,000,000 (2020-28) 26. Prince Fielder, $214,000,000 (2012-20) 27. Austin Riley, $212,000,000 (2023-32) 28. Max Scherzer, $210,000,000 (2015-21) … Julio Rodriguez, $209,300,000 (2023-34) 30. Zack Greinke, $206,500,000 (2016-21) 31. Derek Jeter, $189,000,000 (2001-10) 32. Jacob deGrom, $185,000,000 (2023-27) 33. Joe Mauer, $184,000,000 (2011-18) . . . Jason Heyward, $184,000,000 (2016-23) 35. Wander Franco, $182,000,000 (2022-32) . . . Kris Bryant, $182,000,000 (2022-28) 37. Mark Teixeira, $180,000,000 (2009-16) . . . Justin Verlander, $180,000,000 (2013-19) 39. Dansby Swanson, $177,000,000 (2023-29) 40. Felix Hernandez, $175,000,000 (2013-19) . . . Stephen Strasburg, $175,000,000 (2017-23) . . . Marcus Semien, $175,000,000 (2022-28) 43. Matt Olson, $168,000,000 (2022-29) 44. Buster Posey, $167,000,000 (2013-21) 45. Jose Altuve, $163,500,000 (2018-24) 46. Freddie Freeman, $162,000,000 (2022-27) . . . Brandon Nimmo, $162,000,000 (2023-30) . . . Carlos Rodón, $162,000,000 (2023-28) 49. CC Sabathia, $161,000,000 (2009-15) . . . Chris Davis, $161,000,000 (2016-22) 51. Manny Ramirez, $160,000,000 (2001-08) . . . Matt Kemp, $160,000,000 (2012-19) 53. Troy Tulowitzki, $157,750,000 (2011-20) 54. Masahiro Tanaka, $155,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Jon Lester, $155,000,000 (2015-20) 56. Adrian Gonzalez, $154,000,000 (2012-18) 57. Jacoby Ellsbury, $153,000,000 (2014-20) 58. Miguel Cabrera, $152,300,000 (2008-15) 59. Zack Greinke, $147,000,000 (2013-18) 60. Chris Sale, $145,000,000 (2020-24) 61. Mike Trout, $144,500,000 (2015-20) 62. Cole Hamels, $144,000,000 (2013-18) . . . Eric Hosmer, $144,000,000 (2018-25) 64. Carl Crawford, $142,000,000 (2011-17) 65. Todd Helton, $141,500,000 (2003-11) 66. Jose Ramirez, $141,000,000 (2022-28) 67. Patrick Corbin, $140,000,000 (2019-24) 68. Javier Baez, $140,000,000 (2022-27) 69. David Wright, $138,000,000 (2013-20) 70. Johan Santana, $137,500,000 (2008-13) . . . Jacob deGrom, $137,500,000 (2019-23) 72. Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14) 73. Freddie Freeman, $135,000,000 (2014-21) 74. Justin Upton, $132,750,000 (2016-21) 75. Jose Berrios, $131,000,000 (2022-28) 76. Shin-Soo Choo, $130,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Johnny Cueto, $130,000,000 (2016-21) . . . Paul Goldschmidt, $130,000,000 (2020-24) . . . Max Scherzer, $130,000,000 (2022-24) 80. Matt Cain, $127,500,000 (2012-17) 81. Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13) . . . Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14) . . . Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17) . . . Yu Darvish, $126,000,000 (2018-23) 85. Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16) . . . Josh Hamilton, $125,000,000 (2013-17) . . . George Springer, $125,000,000 (2021-26) 88. CC Sabathia, $122,000,000 (2012-16) 89. Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08) 90. Jason Giambi, $120,000,000 (2002-08) . . . Matt Holliday, $120,000,000 (2010-16) . . . Cliff Lee, $120,000,000 (2011-15) . . . Elvis Andrus, $120,000,000 (2015-22) . . . Xander Bogaerts, $120,000,000 (2020-25) 95. Carlos Beltran, $119,000,000 (2005-11) 96. Zack Wheeler, $118,000,000 (2020-24) 97. Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08) 98. J.T. Realmuto, $115,500,000 (2021-25) 99. Robbie Ray, $115,000,000 (2022-26) . . . Yordan Alvarez, $115,000,000 (2023-28) 101. Jordan Zimmermann, $110,000,000 (2016-20) . . . Dustin Pedroia, $110,000,000 (2014-21) . . . Yoenis Cespedes, $110,000,000 (2017-20) . . . J.D. Martinez, $110,000,000 (2018-22) . . . Kevin Gausman, $110,000,000 (2022-26) 106. Charlie Blackmon, $108,000,000 (2018-23) . . . Luis Castillo, $108,000,000 (2023-27) 108. Jose Reyes, $106,000,000 (2012-17) . . . Justin Upton, $106,000,000 (2018-22) 110. Carlos Correa, $105,300,000 (2022-24) 111. Kevin Brown, $105,000,000 (1999-2005) . . . Homer Bailey, $105,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Ryan Braun, $105,000,000 (2016-20) 114. Trevor Bauer, $102,000,000 (2021-23) . . . Edwin Diaz, $102,000,000 (2023-27) 116. Albert Pujols, $100,000,000 (2004-10) . . . Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12) . . . Ryan Zimmerman, $100,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Evan Longoria, $100,000,000 (2017-22) . . . Kyle Seager, $100,000,000 (2015-21) . . . Alex Bregman, $100,000,000 (2020-24) . . . Ronald Acuna, $100,000,000 (2019-26) . . . Byron Buxton, $100,000,000 (2022-28) . . . Nick Castellanos, $100,000,000 (2022-26) . . . Joe Musgrove, $100,000,000 (2023-27) 126. Adam Wainwright, $97,500,000 (2014-18) 127. Pablo Sandoval, $95,000,000 (2015-19) 128. Clayton Kershaw, $93,000,000 (2019-21) 129. Josh Donaldson, $92,000,000 (2020-23) 130. Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12) 131. Mike Piazza, $91,000,000 (1999-2005) 132. Chipper Jones, $90,000,000 (2001-06) . . . Barry Bonds, $90,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Scott Rolen, $90,000,000 (2003-10) . . . Torii Hunter, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Ichiro Suzuki, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Hunter Pence, $90,000,000 (2014-18) . . . Jeff Samardzija, $90,000,000 (2016-20) . . . D.J. Lemahieu, $90,000,000 (2021-26) . . . Masataka Yoshida, $90,000,000 (2023-27)

Here are the highest paid FA contracts in MLB that are over or 1-2 years from being over. (per cots) I'd like people's opinions on what percent turned out well for the team signing them. 14. Alex Rodriguez, $275,000,000 (2008-17) 16. Alex Rodriguez, $252,000,000 (2001-10) 17. Miguel Cabrera, $248,000,000 (2016-23) 20. Albert Pujols, $240,000,000 (2012-21) … Robinson Cano, $240,000,000 (2014-23) 22. Joey Votto, $225,000,000 (2014-23) 23. David Price, $217,000,000 (2016-22) 24. Clayton Kershaw, $215,000,000 (2014-20) 26. Prince Fielder, $214,000,000 (2012-20) 28. Max Scherzer, $210,000,000 (2015-21) 30. Zack Greinke, $206,500,000 (2016-21) 31. Derek Jeter, $189,000,000 (2001-10) 33. Joe Mauer, $184,000,000 (2011-18) . . . Jason Heyward, $184,000,000 (2016-23) 37. Mark Teixeira, $180,000,000 (2009-16) . . . Justin Verlander, $180,000,000 (2013-19) 40. Felix Hernandez, $175,000,000 (2013-19) . . . Stephen Strasburg, $175,000,000 (2017-23) .44. Buster Posey, $167,000,000 (2013-21) 45. Jose Altuve, $163,500,000 (2018-24) 49. CC Sabathia, $161,000,000 (2009-15) . . . Chris Davis, $161,000,000 (2016-22) 51. Manny Ramirez, $160,000,000 (2001-08) . . . Matt Kemp, $160,000,000 (2012-19) 53. Troy Tulowitzki, $157,750,000 (2011-20) 54. Masahiro Tanaka, $155,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Jon Lester, $155,000,000 (2015-20) 56. Adrian Gonzalez, $154,000,000 (2012-18) 57. Jacoby Ellsbury, $153,000,000 (2014-20) 58. Miguel Cabrera, $152,300,000 (2008-15) 59. Zack Greinke, $147,000,000 (2013-18) 60. Chris Sale, $145,000,000 (2020-24) 61. Mike Trout, $144,500,000 (2015-20) 62. Cole Hamels, $144,000,000 (2013-18) 64. Carl Crawford, $142,000,000 (2011-17) 65. Todd Helton, $141,500,000 (2003-11) 67. Patrick Corbin, $140,000,000 (2019-24) 69. David Wright, $138,000,000 (2013-20) 70. Johan Santana, $137,500,000 (2008-13) . . . Jacob deGrom, $137,500,000 (2019-23) 72. Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14) 73. Freddie Freeman, $135,000,000 (2014-21) 74. Justin Upton, $132,750,000 (2016-21) 76. Shin-Soo Choo, $130,000,000 (2014-20) . . . Johnny Cueto, $130,000,000 (2016-21) . . . Paul Goldschmidt, $130,000,000 (2020-24) . . . Max Scherzer, $130,000,000 (2022-24) 80. Matt Cain, $127,500,000 (2012-17) 81. Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13) . . . Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14) . . . Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17) . . . Yu Darvish, $126,000,000 (2018-23) 85. Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16) . . . Josh Hamilton, $125,000,000 (2013-17) 88. CC Sabathia, $122,000,000 (2012-16) 89. Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08) 90. Jason Giambi, $120,000,000 (2002-08) . . . Matt Holliday, $120,000,000 (2010-16) . . . Cliff Lee, $120,000,000 (2011-15) . . . Elvis Andrus, $120,000,000 (2015-22) 95. Carlos Beltran, $119,000,000 (2005-11) 96. Zack Wheeler, $118,000,000 (2020-24) 97. Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08) 101. Jordan Zimmermann, $110,000,000 (2016-20) . . . Dustin Pedroia, $110,000,000 (2014-21) . . . Yoenis Cespedes, $110,000,000 (2017-20) . . . J.D. Martinez, $110,000,000 (2018-22) 106. Charlie Blackmon, $108,000,000 (2018-23) 108. Jose Reyes, $106,000,000 (2012-17) . . . Justin Upton, $106,000,000 (2018-22) 110. Carlos Correa, $105,300,000 (2022-24) 111. Kevin Brown, $105,000,000 (1999-2005) . . . Homer Bailey, $105,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Ryan Braun, $105,000,000 (2016-20) 114. Trevor Bauer, $102,000,000 (2021-23) 116. Albert Pujols, $100,000,000 (2004-10) . . . Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12) . . . Ryan Zimmerman, $100,000,000 (2014-19) . . . Evan Longoria, $100,000,000 (2017-22) . . . Kyle Seager, $100,000,000 (2015-21) . . . Alex Bregman, $100,000,000 (2020-24) 126. Adam Wainwright, $97,500,000 (2014-18) 127. Pablo Sandoval, $95,000,000 (2015-19) 128. Clayton Kershaw, $93,000,000 (2019-21) 129. Josh Donaldson, $92,000,000 (2020-23) 130. Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12) 131. Mike Piazza, $91,000,000 (1999-2005) 132. Chipper Jones, $90,000,000 (2001-06) . . . Barry Bonds, $90,000,000 (2002-06) . . . Scott Rolen, $90,000,000 (2003-10) . . . Torii Hunter, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Ichiro Suzuki, $90,000,000 (2008-12) . . . Hunter Pence, $90,000,000 (2014-18) . . . Jeff Samardzija, $90,000,000 (2016-20) Remember inflation would move some of these guys on the bottom up significantly.

I'm not forgetting that, at all. My only point is that fans have been disgusted to varying levels over the years, due to losing beloved stars, and winning helped us get over it. This case is different in two ways: the disgust is as deep as I've felt since the Sullivan purges, and we haven't won after losing Betts and Bogey. 2021, helped a little on Betts, but if we don't win, soon, we may never get over this, just like I never got over losing Lynn, Burleson, Fisk and others from those great 70's teams.

Is that the best way to judge a team's chances or how the fans felt about our chances before 2013? Certainly, I'm not going to say fans feel better now than in March 2013. My point is only that winning does not always relate to fan levels of positivity. I remember a lot of fans being really pissed about the Dodger trade and how a one month collapse did not mean the whole team needed to be overhauled. Then, after that trade, many were upset we "spread the savings" out on second tier FAs and not on fewer better ones. It is in this sense, I made the comp. Vic, Napoli, S Drew and Demspter was not what anyone hoped for or approved of, at the time. Again, not to level of disgust we hear, this winter, but it was not positive. Again, I'm not comparing which team had a better chance or not, but only that there are similarities, I felt were worth mentioning.. I was not happy then, and I'm more unhappy now, that I was then, but I do think winning in 2023 can and will change the mood, if it happens.

Not many other professions forced this upon anyone. Of course, players were free to find another profession and leave, and other businesses do have clauses about going to competitors after leaving their company, but MLB was rather extreme.

It will be very telling, assuming we can trust the veracity of any reports that come out naming the initial offer made by the Sox, of if that has already happened, their latest one. I don't think $275M/10 would be "lowball," but it won't be enough, after what we saw the last 2-3 weeks. If reports are accurate that he's due about $16M in his final arb year, starting the contract, now would give him more upfront money, which is great when inflation is high. $16M 2023 + $284M/10 extension after 2023 is $300M/11 total. He might prefer $300M/11 starting now while makin $27.3M a year starting in 2023. ($11M more in 2023, but less under the remaining years and with a lower AAV in every year but 2023 (maybe a Sox advantage, if we still reset in '23.) Considering inflation, it might make more sense to take $290M/11 rather than $16M/1 + $284M/10. If he invests it well, he'll end up with more in the long run. It might take $320/10 or $350M/12 to get him to sign, now. That is very likely an amount the Sox will refuse to offer, no matter what the market says he will or "should" get.

The only real young guys the Sox might have thought about locking up under Bloom are probably: Whitlock (Did sign for $18.75M x 4) Houck Dalbec (after 2020 or 2021) Duran (can't think of a time that looked right.) Of course, players like Betts, Bogey, Devers, Beni and maybe ERod, Vaz and a few others early on probably would have been best locked up (or not) under the DD years. We had a chance with Bogey, it seems, and Devers, even now. It's hard for GM to gauge the market spikes, and certainly some of the numbers thrown around on Bogey a few months ago, seem like bargains, now, but it's hard to know exactly what went down and what the offers actually were. If the Sox offered $160M/6 or $180M/7 tops, but BorA$$ would not budge from $200M/8, it looks, now, like $200M/8 was a steal, and maybe it was or would have been, but for all we know, even if Bloom & Co. predicted the rising market for top end FAs, they still might not have agreed to $200M/8 and maybe wouldn't, right now, if they could. In that case, blame a faulty evaluation system, assuming Bogey does not go on to earn that, but again by what metric do we end up saying he was worth $200M/8, $160M/6 or $280M/11? If they would have paid $200M/8 and did not, thinking nobody would pay that, and Bogey would come back and settle for $190M/8 or $170M/7, then it was a clear mistake, and a much different type than above's example. Maybe, when they thought he was worth $160M/6, BorA$$ wanted $180M/7, and if we then offered $175M/7 a few months later, BorA$$ then wanted $190M/7. Maybe the Sox final offer was $190M/8, but BorA$$ demanded $220/8. At no point did the Sox feel they would meet Bogey's demands and their "set value" never matched with BorA$$. An agent's demand does not always match with a player's true value and with BorA$$ is usually grossly more than the expected final contract ends up being. In this case, I think Bogey got more than even BorA$$ thought he'd get 12, 6 or even 1 month ago.

Yes, players no longer had to work for their massah.

A team should establish a player's value on projected production value plus his affect on bringing money to the team in the form of increased attendance, TV viewership and memorabilia purchases. Set the value and maybe overpay by a little, if you want, but never by a gross amount. Maybe, they make mistakes in the setting of value- maybe they nailed Bogey's value to a tee. I do agree on picking a strategy and maximizing the value of players, even if it means trading them.