moonslav59

It's way different. The amount of bonus money you have to spend on draftees often determines who you can and do draft. Teams look at the bonus money as much as their slots when determining who to draft. Take the Romero pick. Part of the reason they took him was that they did not not need to pay him the slotted bonus money and had more left over later and were able to draft. The near $700K "saved" by drafting Romero allowed then to draft Anthony at about $1.7M overslot, in the third round. The Sox paid under slot money to 7 of the top 8 picks, precisely so they could pay way overslot for Anthony in the 3rd round and Brannon in the 8th round ($550K over slot.)

I do believe he will spend more. I'm not sure he ever matches the Price deal, again, or at least for a while longer, but there are other ways to spend, and spend a lot. I really don't see that he feels "now is the time," and it seems like many here feel this team sucks, so if they are right, no wonder he does not want to throw good money after bad, and he prefers to wait until the farm and roster depth has reached the point where a Price-type deal seems like it would be all that is needed to get us back to WS glory. To me, "the plan" looks pretty clear, even if they don't and won't come out and say it. Add pieces that should help keep us interesting and at least hopeful in March, while making no long term deals that clash with the time frame they see as "the right time" to turn to free agency for major additions and not just "bridges." I think the Story and Yoshida signings make it appear they think we are getting close, and both of them will be here for "the window." I was hoping the window opened in 2023. I felt $90M and an influx of ML ready prospects could get us there. The massive explosion of top end FA salaries kinda put a crimp in that idea, but I still think we could get to respectability, and frankly, I think we are pretty close, right now. That's not to say I'm happy with everything that went down, this winter. Losing Bogey sucks, but I'm not sure it was a clear mistake not signing him to what BorA$$ would have taken at any point along the way. What puzzles me more is spending such a large chunk of the budget on two guys who look to be better at DH than LF (Yoshida) and 3B/1B (Turner), AND LF, 1B and 3B were not even near what I felt were our high need areas going into this winter. I think both will be fine players and should come close to making up for losing the production of Bogey and JD. I'm hopeful better health from Story, Kike and Devers will make up the rest and more. I love the pen additions and await the day we DFA or trade Brasier. I like moving Whitlock to the rotation, now that the pen is solid, and I think he and Bello will do well. I'd like to see us add another solid SP'er, but I seriously doubt that happens. The faith in Sale and Paxton always seemed misplaced. I like the Kluber addition, especially when compared to what other FA options and prices were out there. I think his addition per dollar might be the best SP'er signing, this winter. We need a SS, even if just for a year. Keeping Story at 2B and Kike in CF makes the team way better on D. There are enough options out there to make it happen at minimal cost- in dollars and or trade capital. If we do that, I might end up feeling better about 2023, this March than I did in March 2022, after the Story signing, and certainly better than I felt in March 2021 and 2020.

1. Many felt they quit on the team, anyway by not adding noticeable help and by trading away Vaz and acquiring a .580 catcher in another deal. 2. I don't think adding JD to Vaz would be much more like "quitting." 3. I had a strong feeling 2022 was just not our year way before the deadline. It was just my opinion, and the fact that I'm not a firm believer in the crapshoot theory on winning a ring, I felt giving up on the slim odds and greatly improving our chances going forward far outweighed the choice to stay the course or still make the Pham, McGuire and Hosmer trades without the Vaz one. I get the fan aspect. I get the image of quitting aspect. I thought we should have had a sale at some level, then, and I'm sure of it, now. I'd have gone full fire sale, but keep Kike, as they extended him. I can understand the other side of the issue and am not singing nah, nah, nah because in hindsight, it looks like some of us were right. I wish we had the million dollars more in draft bonus money and higher picks. I wish we had a stronger farm and roster from the returns in trade. We'd have more options, now, had we strengthened our farm and roster, last deadline. That's all I'm looking at. I'm not the business guy thinking about losing too many fans or viewers.

July hopes not March. I also have way more promise in Bello and even Mata than I ever had in Wink, Crawford or Seabold. I also see an improved line-up and vastly improved pen. It's the rotation and SS positions that may drag us down.

I also don't think they do an about face like they did after the Ben era. I think JH feels there needs to be a happy medium, but it has to start with rebuilding the farm and roster depth. People can criticize that plan all they want, but it seems like the most logical plan, although patience is not something easily sold to fans paying the highest ticket prices around, so instead they try to throw enough bones our way to try to keep us happy z(some might say not try hard enough) or fool us, whatever your perspective is.

You know where it's at.

He'd just be a capable one year bridge to Mayer.

To me, the line-up looks better than 2022's OPS: .694 C (maybe the same) .683 1B .724 2B .856 SS .815 3B .694 LF .671 CF .661 RF .763 DH (maybe the same)

Best OPS Against (50+ IP and A Ball or better) .495 German .545 Kelly .559 Bello .584 Politi .585 Walter .593 Mata .601 Ward .616 Keller .618 Stock .623 Wikelman .623 Paez .626 de la Rosa .642 Encarnacion .653 Winckowski .656 Seabold .657 Uberstine .661 Webb

Do you think or are pretty sure Bogey would have taken this reported offer had it been made in February or March?

Agreed, and his .623 OPS Against was very nice, despite the 54 BBs in 98 IP.

I’m concerned about that, too, along with Yoshida, Sale and others. Wow, another thing we agree on.

Stop acting like I don't get your point. I know when your offer was suggested. I agree on everything, except that we know he botched it. It can only be viewed as a POSSIBLE botch, if we know BorA$$ would have said yes. Then, we have to see if he earns even $162M, which he should do, but it's not a sure bet..

Where did I say I did not think $162M/6 would have been a bad offer a year ago? Man, even when I agree with you you find ways to get testy. You can ignore DD's role in everything all you want. You rarely even mention he played a small part in where we are today, despite providing a farm that produced just Houck in 5 years and a focus on extendinng Sale and Nate over getting Bogey to extend without an optout of Betts for a few million more. You said $168M and Bloom said $162 and that's a major, pitiful, just pitiful blunder. Plus, we don't even know for sure that offer gets the job done. You get irate when others speculate, but don't seem to realize when you do it.

They changed from Skeeters to Space Cowboys. The stadium in about 10 mins from my house. I've been to 2 games and a couple concerts and other events there.

Then, simply post his away splits. I believe numbers you post. I believe every opinion you post is what you believe is true.

Had ERod done very well, last year, we might be hearing a different story. BTW, fWAR 2017-2019 7.8 Erod 6.2 Porcello 6.2 Price

Agreed, but maybe 12 months earlier even $162M/6 was not something they felt was right. I'm still not sure $162M/6 was low enough to say it was a clear mistake, but I agree, something should have been worked out earlier, including reworking the DD deal whan that was signed, and we should have traded him, if we felt we'd never come close to what he'd take. I'm not sure they ever felt that, but that can be called a "mistake," too. Let's see how Bogey does.

So, that offer was made after other teams started making offers? If so, that seems low, but not like the Lester offer and much better than the initial lowball offer. I felt $180M/7 was about as high as I'd go, so $162M/6 does not seem like a huge mistake, just because he ended up getting $280M/11. His value should be decided by what he does in the next few years, not what one crazy GM decided to shell out. I'm fine with anyone thinking $126M/6 is also a lowball offer, but I don't see it as low enough to throw hissy fits over, if the report is true. BTW, do you have the link on that offer? I'm curious why it has not been mentioned over and over.

See my last post. 1. We know we offered Lester something close to market value after the lowball first offer. We don't with Bogey. 2. I felt Lester was worth our final offer and what the Cubs got him for. I don't think Bogey was worth $225M/8, let alone $280, so that is a huge difference. Let's look at the Erod example. I was a huge ERod supporter and often defender, once he got over his issues of getting past the 4th inning. I wanted us to extend or re-sign him. However, once I saw what he signed for with the Tigers, I felt Bloom made the right call. A few here, wished we'd have kept him, but not many. Nobody talks about him, now. Nobody says we let another good one getaway, now. In hindsight, Bloom made the right choice, but only because it looks like ERod will never come close to earning what he is being paid. How is the Bogey situation different? I heard no offers by the Sox for ERod. I realize ERod is no Bogey, but the mistake will become known after Bogey plays a few more years. yes, our opinions on the mistakes made with Lester turned out right, but had he sucked, there would be zero talk about him now, right? Respectfully, is that different enough?

I hated the Lester fiasco and am fully prepared to hate the Bogey, one, too, once I find out the specifics. One difference: we know the specific last minute offer we made Lester. I'm still of the opinion we never wanted Lester at market prices, and even that last offer was just for show, as they knew full well, he'd turn it down. The same may end up being true for Bogey. One difference, again. We have the results on Lester- post fiasco. We can only speculate on Bogey's post signing results, and another difference is that, let's say we find out we made a final offer close to what SD made (like what happened with Lester and the Cubs), I'd look at that as a mistake for offering maybe $250M/10. I don't think he's worth that, when not playing SS for 8-9 years of the 10. I thought Lester was worth what he got with the Cubs, and hindsight really makes that mistake sink in.

To compare where the 2021 team was at the deadline with the 2022 team is a joke, IMO. It was foresight not hindsight, all along. It was a big mistake to at least not trade JD. It was also a mistake not trading everything not tied down.

I don't know how to access minor league away splits. Enlighten me, and I'll do the footwork. No, I don't pay attention to my hometown minor league team. I didn't know Valdez played for them, until he was traded.

I've agreed it was a mistake to make that initial offer. You seem to have a hard time accepting when I agree with you. To you, nothing else matters about what came about afterwards. If the answer is nothing happened, then I'd agree that's another major strike against Bloom & Co. The problem is, we don't know. I have to think something else was said after that first offer. I'd like to know what it was. Unlike you, I'm not assuming that even a $160M/6 deal would have been a clear winning counteroffer, even if accepted by BorA$$ doubtful, IMO, until we see what Bogey does in the next 6 years. I'm 100% with you on the point about trading him, if we knew we were not going to make a serious run at extending him. I'm not sure how easy it would be under his no-trade status, but we probably could have gotten him to accept a trade. What, specifically, do you disagree with anything I just wrote?

So, it then comes down to what happened next. Did the Sox make a second offer or say they were prepared to go higher, and still got nothing back from BorA$$? Without knowing what happened and didn't happen, isn't it pointless to throw blame on anything beyond what is known- the initial lowball offer?z What if it comes out the Sox told BorA$$ they were willing to offer Bogey something north of what Story got and got no reply? Is it the Sox fault for not making a third or 4th offer despite no demands or frameworks for a deal presented by BorA$$? I'm not saying no: I'm just wondering what the facts are, before I give my opinion on everything after the lowball, initial offer.