moonslav59

Do you really think any GM could have built a winner with the situation Bloom was handed? Not do a better job, but actually build a championship caliber team with this budget, lack of ML ready prospects, inured and declining carry over vets? I do think someone could have done better, but comparing Bloom's task to the O's is like apples to oranges. The O's were 83-79, last year and still sold off, at the deadline. If it was Bloom who kept us from selling off, last summer, I'd tend to agree with your point to some extent, but I'm not so sure it was his idea.

In terms of win-losses, yes, pretty much overnight, but their rebuild took many years. Sucking so badly also allowed them to draft highly. They also traded away top players, where Sox fans would not stand for even for one year- like the 2022 non sell off

I disagree. The fact that no young and cost-effective prospects helped the roster from Devers in mid 2017 to Bloom's take over after the 2019 season had a huge affect on the rebuilding timeline expectation. That was over 2 years of just about nothing. That led to Bloom being handed a roster nearly devoid of top young talent, beyond Devers. You don't think that matters? The 2019 roster's youngest players: 22 Devers & DHern 23 Chavis 24 Beni (3 arbs left) & Shawaryn 25 Shaw, Lakins, Lin Devers, Beni and Houck was it. The rest were older vets, some very near free agency or higher arb salaries. Many others saw their production levels decline, even while still within prime years, for some. I keep coming back to expectation levels by us posters back in 2020. I personally believe some had unrealistically high expectations. Some reasons may have been... 1. They equated the 2019 roster to the 2018 one, of thought they were nearly identical. 2. They did not realize the effect of the roster going 5 years between Devers and Bello with just about no help beyond Houck. 3. They assumed JH would continue spending like a top 3-5 team, or think Bloom had something to do with budget cuts or bargain basement roster construction strategies. 4. They don't look beyond W-L records. Context is the same as making excuses or "supporting" Bloom.

I don't think top brass believes we are an ace away from being top contenders for a ring. I don't either. I had hopes we might be that close before last winter's FA signing period, but all Hell broke loose on contract costs. I brought up the trade for 2 solid pitchers (Cease and Gilito) and listed out the effect on the roster and staff as a question to posters to see if we think we might be 2 solid pitchers away from top contention. You point is one I agree on: even if we are good enough to be just 2 pitchers from contending for a ring in 2023, it's not worth trading away much for the extended future for a 1 or 2 year window. Extending an added pitcher affects both the budget and the future farm infusion. It's not worth it. One can argue it's not worth it, even if we are one ace away.

I really like our draft, and the most recent drafts (and IFA signings) seem to look better and better as time goes by.

Gotta wait for the stock to rise, more. LOL

We should know by now, that what they say matters very little.

I'm not necessarily "for" trading top prospects, especially for rentals, even if you can extend them at a good rate. I don't think we are "close enough" to take the plunge, right now. I'm not a believer in the playoffs are a crapshoot, like many here are, but it does happen, sometimes. Having the pitcher on your roster and extending them can sometimes work well, as you often get a slightly better contract deal. If not, I agree, just wait and sign the guy. That was my big beef about the Kimbrell trade. The guy was making FA money, at the time, and we gave up several prospects for him. The price of top closers skyrocketed afterwards, so that ended up changing that dynamic of the grading, but still... The Pedro trade and extension worked. The Schilling trade worked- not the mini extension. The Beckett trade and extension worked. The Sale trade worked. The extension did not. The Porcello trade and extension worked out okay. Am I missing any pitcher trade & extends? Our record on these has been pretty good.

Good point. I guess one could call Dalbec a great AAAA player. Fitzy fits the bill, too. Goodrum, Alfaro and Greg Allen to some extent. Duran's call up hurt the AAA future pipeline, and Abreu and Rafaela seem like the only to everyday players that are close to helping the big club. Rosier, DHam and Scott may be long shots. On the pitching side, Walter & Murphy are on the big club, now, but will likely be back and forth all season. Drohan has more to prove before he gets a chance. Long shots might be Denlinger, Van Belle and R Fernandez. Kelly might have been a help, but the injury hurt that chance. SP's has these guys in AAA, next year: Mata & Bernardino (MLB) Drohan, Walter, Murphy, Liu, Van Belle, Kelly, Guerrero Mayer, Yorke, Rafaela, Abreu, EValdez, DHam, Rosier, Dalbec Those far away prospects are getting closer!

It's weird how short the signing period is, but some of these guys have to decide about college or not. Also, I wish they'd allow draft choice trades. It would really add excitement and intrigue to the draft.

Look at what a difference getting significant help from 3 farm hands can make- Bello, Duran & Casas, and Casas is not a big plus WAR guy, yet. Imagine if we had gotten 2-3 guys like them in 2020, 2021 and 2022, as well.

Bloom certainly has not worked wonders with the MLB rosters over his 3.5 years at the helm. I'm not sure a single poster thinks he has. The difficulties handed him, to me, are some pretty massive mitigating circumstances. It's very hard for any GM to rebuild a roster with virtually no farm help in 5 consecutive years- 2.5 of which started before you even took over. Part of the reason we have seen little farm help, until Bello & Casas were called up and Duran "matured" is because Bloom chose to draft nearly all HS kids in the early rounds. That's on him, but it's hard for me to hold that against any GM, as long as those kids remain very promising- like many still are. He did bring some farm infusion through Rule 5 and trades (Whitlock, Wink, Wong and some minor pieces,) but so far, we have not seen much of Bloom's farm making an impact at the MLB level. When you have just Houck helping from the farm in a 5 year period (from Devers to Bello/Casas), the only way you really have to rebuild the MLB roster is through signings, waiver wires and trades. In this area Bloom has done somewhere between s*****, a mixed bag or okay, depending on each poster's point of view and expectations going into each season. The mandated Betts with Price deal was a tough way for any GM to keep the MLB roster producing at a high level, oou of the gate. The injury issues to guys like Sake, ERod, Nate and a few other carry-over players and an almost total decline by every vet handed to Bloom, except Devers and a few others, only made his task of building a MLB winner ASAP much more difficult. (BTW, even Devers saw his best season in 2019, under DD- not Bloom.) That being said, Bloom made some horrible choices: the JBJ trade, Barnes extension, the Story (so far) Richards and Kluber signings, the Diekman, Marwin and several more lower level signings as well as some overall philosophical/directional spending that often missed the mark, like not enough on the pen in '22, and not enough on the rotation in '23. Signing injury-prone SP'ers mostly backfired, soo. He did, however, make a few very nice signings and additions. I still think he won the Dugo/Wong trade, and the Winckowski trade might prove to be better than we thought, at first. These were good deals: Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Renfroe, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Jansen, Martin, Yoshida (so far) and trades for Pivetta, Ottavino, the ones I mentioned and maybe more, once we find out what some prospects end up doing. Clearly, the overall grade here is neither an A or an F, considering the situation. Thirdly, the budget was a pretty big mess, when he took over, when you look at sunken costs and lessening production from almost all the higher paid players. The massive budget cut before 2020, then slow release of funds afterwards made rebuilding the MLB roster into a strong contender, virtually impossible, in my view. Yes, Bloom could have done better. He was supposed to be good at finding bargains. He largely swung and missed on bargain basement additions. Again, what should be expected from low level signings? Yes, Bloom could have chosen to sign more quality than quantity, but our roster depth was in shambles by 2020. I doubt we'd have won, had we signed a $16M/1 pitcher, instead or Richards and Perez, combined, or a $17M/1 pitcher instead of Kluber and Duvall. Last year, we heard so much about the pen being the main reason for our losing record. Bloom did a very good job fixing it, and it could have been even better had Whitlock, Houck and or Crawford been able to pitch from the pen, all year. Bloom seems to have done a pretty good job with the offense, and if Story was healthy, Turner at 1B and Yoshida at DH with Duvall in LF, our defense would actually no be bad. Having 4 SSs hurt at the same time is hard for any GM to overcome, but he did know about 2 of the injuries, beforehand. All-in-all, I do not think Bloom deserves a free pass. There were severe mitigating circumstances, but he mostly failed or did not do wonders dealing with any of them. Hopefully, his farm building will start making a difference, but even that may not be until 2025 or 2026, and he may be long gone, by then. (Kinda like Ben.)

The 1.3 years of control makes him a little different from others.

The idea would be to extend Bieber of Cease or Giolito. I'm not sure, if we are "close enough" to take a plunge like this, either.

True, but if Anthony has shown he is "better," then it should not show Bleis got worse by going down one slot.

Agreed. There is a big lack or talent at AAA. It's surprising they have won so many games. My point was that "part" of the "lack" is because guys like Duran were or are called up, already. It was still lacking with them in AAA.

17 games to the deadline with just 2.5 SP'ers in the rotation (Bello, Paxton & Crawford.) Can we make it that long, or do we try to spring an earlier deal?

This one was accepted by BTV: Casas, Rafaela, Walter, Mata, Murphy for Cease & Giolito Turner to 1B, Yoshida to DH, Duvall LF/CF & Refnsyder LF If Whitlock, Houck and Sale return, we can finally put Whitlock, Houck and Crawford back in the pen, giving us this for a 100% healthy staff: Cease Bello Paxton Giolito Sale Jansen Martin Houck Whitlock Schreiber Crawford Winckowski Bernardino Line-up: vR 1. L Duran CF 2. R Turner 1B 3. L Devers 3B 4. L Yoshida DH 5. R Story SS 6. L Verdugo RF 7. R Duvall LF 8. R Hernandez/Arroyo 2B 9. R Wong C vL 1. R Refsnyder LF 2. R Story SS 3. L Devers 3B 4. R Turner 1B 5. L Yoshida DH 6. R Duvall CF (or RF) 7. L Verdugo RF (or Duran CF) 8. R Kike or Arroyo 2B 9. R Wong C Can this be a ring winning team?

They could wait to this winter or next deadline, but I'm pretty sure he gets dealt, at some point.

I can't imagine the least amount he might extend for would be low enough to allow us to build a team around him and Devers. No matter what, if we are willing to pay him mega bucks, then just sign him as a FA. Is he going to single-handedly lead us to a ring, this fall?

Bloom prospects and current SP's rankings: 1. Mayer 2. Bleis 4. Anthony 5. Yorke 6. Drohan 8. Romero 10. Valdez (trade) 14. Meidroth 15. Jordan 16. Joh. Garcia 19. E Rodriguez- Cruz 20. Abreu (trade) 21. Hickey 22. D Hamilton (trade) 23. Cespedes 25. Guerrero 27. C Coffey 28. Alcantara 29. Ravelo 30. Rogers 31. Brannon 32. Monegro 33. Troye 34. Kavadas 36. Dobbins Graduated: Whitlock, Winckowski, Wong, Ort, Kelly, Bernardino Carry-overs... 3. Rafaela 7. Peralez 9. Wikelman 11. Walter 12. Bonaci 13. Murphy 17. Paulino 18. Mata 24. Castro 26. R Fernandez 35. Lugo Graduated ('22>): Duran, Crawford, Bello, Casas

Many of Bloom's prospects are rising quickly.

SP's gave him a big jump but not ahead of Mayer, Bleis or Rafaela.

I agree, but if we want to be buyers or add a solid SP'er with more than a year of team control, we have to part with good players- not crappy ones. I mentioned adding Pereales to the deal, not because I'm giving up on him or thinks he can't be good, but because I do value him and think other GMs do, too, and will gives us someone very good- like Bieber. We know how good Bieber is, and he already has control.

Whitlock and Houck have been very good for almost their whole time in MLB. The sample sizes are not really big, but they are substantial. I'm hopeful one or both will help over the last 2 months of 2023- maybe one can pitch from the pen, if we add a SP'er or two or Sale comes back. Schreiber has been rehabbing, so I think he comes back earlier than CBS claimed.