moonslav59

You mean like the overall stats of Berrios after the trade? 4.34 ERA You know, your fantasy trade of Duran for him.

Losing big to HOu really hurt, badly, but beating these teams might have made a big difference: 0-2 STL 0-3 PIT 0-3 MIA or even... 1-2 COL 1-2 CWS 1-2 WSH Of course, 1-7 v TBR hurt like hell, too, but we are 18-7 vs BAL, TOR and NYY. We are also 11-5 vs ATL, AZ, MIL, PHI and TEX.

You mean like the poster with a long list of doing just that? Just recently... Now , you are just being ridiculous.... ...You are not making any sense... You just want to get into an argument over it, like you always do.... Well, I was right all along , hard as it is for you to admit. That's just from this page. Who is talking down to who?

I believe you, but Dale insists the pen lost games for us all year long. I'm pretty sure the pen did lose some games after the ASB, even if not by a closer.

My point was asking what Sox pitcher was "hyped as the next Pedro." BTW, I'm not suggesting we trade for a pitching prospect. I'm thinking someone proven and has 3-4 years fo team control. Maybe 2, if we can extend him. Yes, that will take a "haul," too but Mayer is a good start to a package. Duran and Perales or Wikelman might be a good start, too. Rafaela and Yorke plus some second tiers... You don't think that's not a good enough start? Add Hickey and Murphy/Walter... The Castillo deal was costly, but SEA extended him: The Reds receives SS Edwin Arroyo, INF Noelvi Marte, RHP Levi Stoudt and RHP Andrew Moore. I think 2 were top 100. There was a rumor we kicked the tire on Verlander, but he's not they type I'd trade top prospects for. Civale might not have been an ace, but what did he cost? (I think he had 2-3 years or control, still.) The Marlins traded Pablo Lopez, but not for prospects. I'm sure someone knows better than I do, about some recent trades for SP'ers who were or quickly became solid #2s or aces.

People said he was too skinny and small to ever be a durable SP'er, but he had a great season before the trade. Armas and Pavano were both good prospects, but I'm not sure they were great prospects. I think Pavano was. I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong.

Standings update just for Red: With the Yankee loss to Detroit, today -4.0 from 3rd place (TOR) -4.0 from 5th place (NYY) A great day for the Sox. We are also tied with MIN for the 7th and 8th slot in AL winning %: about in the middle. We are also #15 out of 30 MLB teams. Rejoice in our mediocrity.

Then, you said this.... I said Dombrowski should have done something... Why wouldn't doing nothing at the deadline be part of the equation. The season was not over, by then. What's so hard to get about this? Yes, we lost games, all year, but we did nothing at the deadline, and it could have been different.

Who is disagreeing that the pen and rotation were the major reasons for the decline? Why they weren't fixed gets to the root of the problem that has continued since the end of 2018, and it does not contradict the points you made and we all agree on. You may think DD and Bloom have chosen to not spend or trade prospects to fix obvious problems, but one reasonable position is to think the directive came from those who write the checks.

You also said this...

It was no short strech, either. (July 21 to the end of the season) 4.79 ERA 5.91 in 10.2 IP in the '18 playoffs (9 games) Apparently, bringing him back was DD's big mistake.

You didn't make sense, when you said the 2019 deadline had "nothing to do" with the drop off. Did you say that, or not? Did not getting pen help at the deadline make a difference? If yes, why say it didn't matter? Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? Yes, the pen was a major reason for the drop off, as was the rotation. You blame DD for not making moves, and my point is that our GM's hands began to be tied after 2018, and it was not DD's nor Bloom's choice to not spend more.

So was Schreiber, Refsnyder and others, but apparently, he was a prospect, when we got him, and he counts as a Bloom prospect in my book.

I bet the main friction between DD and top brass was over their change in direction on spending and allowing major prospect trades in the winter of '18-'19 and the 2019 deadline. I can't prove it, but to me, it msakes sense.

I do think we should have tried to keep "the window" open longer, but at some point we'd have to pay the piper, unless JH & Co decided to become Steve Cohen. We can all pontificate about why he should have done so, but that does not change the fact that he moved in the opposite direction and both GMs paid the price.

I can't believe anything they say, and should have stopped even considering it as partial truths, years ago. it's all coded words designed to con us into thinking they care about the current team's success.

I was a supporter of the Sale contract, at the time, and have never tried to shy away from that, but the fact is, Bloom was handed a broken pitcher and bloated contract. The other thing many fail to accept is that he did inherit many great players from 2018, but many never came near repeating their 2018 numbers, but people acted like they were the same players, and it was all Bloom's fault for not surrounding them with teh same level of suppsorting cast as DD did for 2018. Betts and Price were forced out. We never replaced Porcello. Nate missed 33% of his starts and was shaky for another 17% of the time (making him 50-50 for 4 years) JD and Bogey's production dropped off a cliff in '21 and '22. Vaz was up and down. ERod missed a season. The pen sucked in 2019 to begin with. JBJ fell off a cliff. Beni was traded but never did as well as pre-2020. Who am I missing? Bloom did not "inhereit the 2018 team-" not even close. Hell, he didn't even inherit the 2019 team and them's the facts!

Admit what? You were wrong about the pen being the major reason we dropped off so much? Okay, I admit it. I may have said the pen would be okay, and I'll apologize, taking your word for it that I did. Can you explain why doing nothing at the deadline to fix the pen or rotation "did not matter at all?" Can you admit you made a mistake saying that? Hard as it is for you to do so?

Yes, Larry. Here ie the total list from 2017: 2017: Devers 2018: none 2019: none 2020: none 2021: Houck and Dalbec 2022: Bello, Duran, Crawford and Wink 2023: Casas, Wong, Bernardino, Murphy, Ort, jacques People say, "look at the facts" or "Look at the results." Well, these are facts and results, too. Soon to graduate? Rafaela Abrue Walter DHam EValdez Nick Robertson Maybe not top caliber names, here, but 3 straight years with zero! Actually 4: summer of '17 (Devers) to summer of 21 (Houck) These were "results," too, and one of a few major reason we hit hard times.

You think DD chose to do nothing? He did not want to replace Kimbrell and Kelly that winter or at the deadline? The choice was made from the top, and DD did not like the new direction. It was the direction change that caused the drop and likely the fallout between DD and JH&Co, not DD's "failure to make moves." You also said the deadline had nothing to do with it, then said we were 10 over when he was fired. It was actually 8, but that point highlights how important that deadline could have been had DD been allowed to trade more prospects for pen help, or even a SP'er. BTW, the rotation was a mjaor reason for the drop off- not just the pen: 2018>2019 Pen: 3.72 ERA/587 IP> 4.40 ERA/665 IP SP: 3.77 ERA/871 IP> 4.95ERA/806 IP It's not as simple as just blaming the pen. The pen certainly sucked and blew way too many saves, but they were forced to pitch 80 more IP over 2018 and the ERA drop off was way worse for the rotation: Raised ERA +1.18 rotation +0.68 Pen

How about trading for pen help at the deadline? How is that different from no trades for SP'er this year? The cuts in spending and resistance to trading more prospects for immediate help ended before DD left, and the effects showed on the 2019 team, just like it has with Bloom's teams. I think that was at the root of the growing tension between DD and the top brass.

Most teams sign a few each year, and it's often a good idea. I think we don't have many slots to fill, but we may add some depth players on 1 year deals at positions where we are not sure incoming kids are good enough, yet. IIf we sign one more SP'er as our best one to a 1 year $10M contract, I'll be as gloom and doom as fred lynn.

We stopped spending and failed to trade any prospects for help at the deadline- something Bloom and DD could not overcome.

Of course, but we all know O'Halloran is Bloom Whisperer.

Well, Bloom has yet to be named GM.