moonslav59

What free agents were? Lackey did better than most FA signings at coming closer to expected value. I would not single him out as FA signing failure. There are so many others that fit that mold much better.

Having interest in him shows our heads are up our asses.

To trade ourselves to competitiveness would be to empty the entire farm of all top prospects. I'd rather we just flip to sell mode and punt 2024. If we can trade some everyday prospects for a pitcher with 3-5 years of team control, fine, but otherwise, just punt. Why can Bloom? To continue the sham. Brez did lighten the mood for a couple months.

Full throttle to a top 5 draft pick?

Yuck.

I'm very hesitant to call for replacing this ownership group. I know it was mentioned that the next group would have to look fully committed, but there is no guarantee on that, or on their ability to hire the right people to make the right baseball hires. Of course the unknown always seems scarier than the known, even if the known looks shaky as hell. While there are several teams in MLB who really seem to know what they are doing, and have multiple young studs and some even have more waiting in the wings, I think the long slow rebuild of our entire system began a few years back. The low point came after the inexcusable Betts trade, and this ownership group never wanted the fanbase to know the rebuild was always going to be the top priority. No major long term FA signings- I guess Story comes closest. No trades of top prospects for over 6 years (Beeks in '18 and ARamirez in '21 were the highest ranked prospects traded and hardly any others in the top 10 or 15.) Of course, not going into total, tear-down rebuild mode hurt and slowed the process. Just one summer fire sale would have greatly improved our outlook, but it is what it is. We've seen a half-ass approach or walking the thin line of reaching the boiling point with Sox Nation. Lame attempts at giving the perception we can or soon will be competitive again, only to b e disappointed over and over, again. Kudos to those who saw right through the sham earlier than the rest of us, but I still warn, "Be careful what you wish for." This ownership group has cycled to ring seasons, IMO. They have never tried to win it all every season. Certainly they had higher floors than recently, and even had a stretch of 3 last place finishes in 4 years, once before. The runs under Theo and more briefly under DD were amazing, but surprisingly, we had 2 rings in the first 10 years (2003-2012) and 2 rings in the next 10 years (2013-2022.) Winning a rin, soon, look like a pipedream, but we do finally have a farm system that looks as promising as anything we've had since the Theo days- maybe about years ago. We did just extend Devers to the largest contract in Sox history, by over 40%, and perhaps with a gun to their heads. Since March 2022, we have not only extended Devers, but also paid one FA $140M and another over $100M to acquire. That could be viewed as a move in the right direction. The last big financial expenditure like that was the Bogey and Sale extensions right before the 2019 season, the same winter we let Kimbrell & Kelly go, without even trying to replace their value. That 3 year lull in spending, which coincided with no meaningful farm infusion and the loss of Betts and others really knocked this team back a ton. We are still trying to recover, or should I say pretending to try. We have not seen anything from the Story and Yoshida signings (Yet?) That might have helped morale a bit. We have, however, seen a strikingly quick growth of a farm many felt was left totally barren by DD. While recent grads don't jump off the page like some teams seem to have, the lits is as long and meaningful as we have seen since Theo: 2021: Whitlock, Houck 2022: Duran, Crawford, Wink 2023: Bello, Casas, Wong and some lesser players like EValdez, Bernardino & Kelly 2024 and 2025 promises arrivals and or graduations by some very promising players: Anthony Mayer Teel Rafaela & Abreu (MLB experience already) Yorke Wikelman Fitts, Slaten, Mata, Murphy & Walter Longer shots like... (lower ceilings) Monegro, Meidroth, Jordan & DHam Dobbins, E R-C, Guerrero, Bastardo, Song & Hoppe Gambrell, Troye, I Coffey, Benitez & Olivares Many will fail, of course, but this is one promising area this management team has built up, despite the lack of any "wow" pitcher in the group. The winter is not over. We'll have to pick off an amazing percentage of the remaining cream of the crop to keep any hopes alive. This looks so much like yet another punt, that I no longer support trading top for one key piece, unless it's for a top pitcher with 3 or more years of team control. We aren't getting a new owner before the start of 2024, so I guess we can wait and see what these guys can cobble together out of the remaining rubble, but for the first time, I'm beginning to think a change is needed. I'm not fully sold on the idea, and I'm extremely leary of who the next group will be, but this really sucks.

Or DD, if the checkbook was locked away. What did DD do after 2018, when the winter budget was low, and it seemed trades of prospects was not allowed?

We should find all the quotes from before 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.

I'm not thrilled about Yoshida. I doubt we can trade him without paying something. I am still optimistic about our longer term outlook, despite knowing all these guys won't be clear pluses in a year or two, but we have a pretty good amount of promising players that should be able to do well filling in for those who fail. I realize we need more than just 20-26 plus players. We need a few studs or at least a fair amount of plus-plus players. I feel we are about 3 key plus-plus players from being in the thick of the playoff race in 2024. Hell, we were in the race in 2023, until the walls came crumbling down. 2025: Bello, Crawford, Houck, Whitlock, Fitts, Gambrell/Wikelman/Perales Winckowski, Screiber, Bernardino, Campbell, Slaten, Mata, Weissert/Kelly/Murphy/Guerrero Teel, Wong/McGuire Casas Story, EValdez Mayer, DHam Devers, Meidroth Yoshida, Duran Rafaela, Anthony Abreu Yorke (Hickey/Jordan)

A heavenly dream it was.

I expected a lot of spending both winters.

It is easy to what if past FA signings, but this one made a lot of sense, at the time. $15M x 5 for Senga vs $18M x 5 for Yoshida. We could have also done this AAV swap out: $18M Yoshida $15M Senga instead of... $18M Yoshida $10M Kluber $2M Tapia + the $3M from the Mondesi trade

Maybe he DHs vs RHPs (120 games) and plays LF vs LHPs (42 games) and Ref DHs vs lefties. 2023 GS 84 LF 49 DH 29 days off 2024? 40-50 LF 12 days off 100-110 at DH

They are reportedly looking to cut salary and have a glut of SP'ers, but I agree. I doubt they want to trade him. They'd have to really like one or two of our prospects to think about it.

I'm not for trading for either, unless it is part of a larger plan to get better in 2024. I'd be fine trading a lot for Luzardo, if we signed Monty and added Polanco. BTV is a flawed site, and trying for a 3 players for one type deal is very likely a pipe dream, but what would you offer in the ballpark of these valued pitchers: 63 Luzardo (3 yrs for a total of an estimated $28M) 58 Garrett (5 yrs at $46M) 17 Castillo (5 yrs at $122M or $24.5M/yr) Sox values: 51 Casas 48 Bello 45 Mayer 42 Anthony 34 Duran 24 Crawford 22 Houck 22 Bleis 18 Teel 13 Yorke 12 Rafaela 10 Schreiber 9 Wink & Pivetta 8 EValdez & Abreu 7 Cespedes 6 Wikelman Duran, Crawford and Wikelman for Luzardo (That's the 3 for 1 I warned against working) Mayer and Bleis for Luzardo? Mayer & Houck or Crawford? How about Mayer & Yorke for Garrett? Mayer & Rafaela? How about Crawford or Houck for Castillo and $5M? Yorke and Schreiber for the same? I'm not sure any of these offers would be accepted, but you get the general idea.

I'm not sure anyone still "likes" the deal, but few seem to hate it as much as you do. There is still time for him to redeem himself to an unknown degree. Is it hard to imagine him hitting: .306 18 80 (.851 OPS)with no errors as a DH? That was his pace on August 1, 2023. (21 Hrs and 91 RBI over 162 games) His .367 OBP on August 1st would have led the team. I'm not projecting or predicting he give us those numbers for the full 2024 season or the remainder of his contract, but he could. (Maybe even better.)

The 2023 Sox C Wong & McGuire 1B Casas (Dalbec) 2B Reyes, DHam (Yorke) SS Story (Mayer) 3B Devers LF Duran & Abreu (Refsnyder) CF Abreu & Rafaela (Anthony) RF O'Neill (trade at deadline) DH Yoshida SP1 Bello SP2 Crawford SP3 Houck SP4 Murphy SP5 Walter (Gambrell/Wikelman/Dobbins/ICoffey/Penrod/Song/Bastardo) Closer Whitlock RP2 Winckoski RP3 Schreiber RP4 Bernardino RP5 Mata RP6 Slaten RP7 Fitts/Kelly/Criswell/Weissert/Wikelman/Perales

BTV accepted: Sale, Jansen and Martin plus $33M to PHI for pitching prospect Mick Abel. Pivetta, EValdez plus $4M to STL for pitching prospect Tink Hence. Full throttle!

Not a bad idea. $5M AAV at the deadline is a $15M a year player.

Who would "calm the mood?" If it's not Monty or Snell, we should just admit we are punting and act accordingly. (Won't happen- I know.) I just can't fathom them actually believing they can keep the sham going in perpetuity. We certainly have some dumb fans, but 5 years in a row should get through the thickest of skulls.

What about deal like Castillo or Luzardo- pitchers with 3 or more years on control?

Good point. Did he know it after Betts?

Post #3250. You said it less than 2 hours ago.

No. I thought it was obvious I was talking total contract money. $60M/3 Stroman $45M/3 Lugo If you are talking just AVV, I'm not sure who you get much for $15M/3: Michael A Taylor?

He almost always makes sense.