moonslav59

Houck was the only "tweener" that spent all of his 2023 games in the rotation. He and Pivetta look like the sure bet starters in 2024, along with Bello & Gio. The 5th starter will likely be shuffled during the season, unless the first guy does well enough to hold it down. I'm guessing Crawford has the inside track, but at this point, who knows. Whit & Wink are "being stretched out," so maybe one of them wins the job in ST'ing.

Exactly, and at best, we just shuffled Paxton and Sale for Gio. We didn't add squat.

Makes sense.

Didn't Swihart's Ghost get banned, last year? Someone else got banned for releasing personal information on certain posters, a few years back.

Theo joins Fenway Sports Group! https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/theo-epstein-fenway-sports-group-red-sox-owner-advisor.html

Why Beni? We have 26 left fielders, already. He's also washed up.

Plus the 34th pick in the next draft. I can see why teams are asking for the world on 2+ year pitchers.

We should sign a bunch of one year guys, with the idea of trading them at the deadline.

The thing is, I'm okay with overpays, when needed. I thought the Price signing was just what we needed, and thet he was about as "sure a bet" as you could ever hope for in an "overpay."

That happens, a lot, before a sale of a team.

I was not for bringing back ERod at what he got from DET, so wrong, again. He did help the team win, a lot. He had some rough times, that first year with DET.

I knew many did, but yes. No wonder none get to 230 anymore. Hardly any get to 200.

Okay. Lower production. Less IP. Should I be impressed? Encouraged? I happen to think Gio will do better than 2023, but Sale & Paxton did better than most of our pitchers, last year, and we sucked in SP'ing, then, too.

I hope we add an innings eater, but part of me also thinks maybe it's not a bad idea to find out- once-and for-all, if any of these tweeners can start 27+ games and go 160+ IP. I just hope we don't ruin any of them in the attempt.

It's weird how even Price's 230 IP in 2016 has not been topped, since. 229 Alcantara '22 223 Verlander '19 221 Scherzer '18 217 deGrom '18 216 Webb '23 215 Kluber '18 214 Sale '17

Also, Sale + Paxton = 39 GS and nearly 200 IP. I doubt Gio starts even 34 games.

So, you are penalizing him for having too many IP? I guess there are only 49 SP'ers worthy of comparing him to, because they did not "qualify." BTW, tied for 21st in your stat, xFIP is top 43% out of 49 pitchers. While the fact that only 49 pitchers had 300+ IP from '21-'22 highlights just how much more value someone like Monty has for any team, his production level was better than top 43%, when you count 4-5 pitchers per team- you know, the amount every team uses. He pitches more innings than the other 100 SP'ers and much better per inning, but we can't count them. How good are those other 100? Even going to 250 IP, the sample size only grow to 81 pitchers. (Monty is tied for 31st or top 39%) You have to go to 200 IP, a measly 100 per season, to even get to 114 pitchers (105 SP'ers.) That's about 3-4 per team. (33 out of 105 is about top 30%) When I think average, I think where does some one rank among the top 150 SP'er, (5 SP x 30 teams) but even that could b e viewed as not really comparing him to every SP'er to see what average looks like. It's like saying, "He's an average top 50 pitcher in MLB."

We should have brought ERod back. In his starts the team went... 19-4 in '18 26-8 in '19 (0-0 in the COVID season) 19-12 in '21 Of course, wins are team numbers, and he went 20-23 w DET in '22-'23.

Comparing to other like pitchers, who signed around the same time is a valid point, but if someone thinks all 3 were overpaid, it doesn't matter all that much. I brought up how Price did not earn his contract. You bring up how Scherzer did, and yes, luck is a big factor. Looking at the signing, when it was made, and I felt Price had about as nice of a record you could ever hope for. No looming injury issues. He was projected to make a major impact on any team that signed him. I was surprised and shocked we signed him, after the Lester and no over 30 issues. I was glad we signed him, but I knew he'd become a drain on the budget, eventually. I did not expect him to give us just 350 innings years 2-4, but that is hindsight. I felt the 7 years would be a problem, but that's what it took to get him, and I was okay with it, despite knowing it was too much for too long.

It's pretty much a different opinion for every person. When compared to arb players, almost all FA are paid more, so I get your point about comparative signings based on past production and projected future value. In that sense, Price got about what "the going rate" was for stars like he was. Was he worth 2.5 x what Porcello got? I could see the justification for that. (It was more like 1.5 x the AAV.) I thought he was overpaid. Maybe you don't. I thought it was worth it. I don't think he was, now. He helped us get a ring, so I am grateful we had enough funds to have him as insurance.

Agreed, and I'd rather sign a guy like Lauer and let Abreu & Rafaela play more OF, than sign Soler or Duvall.

I'd have overpaid on the Yamo gamble, just like I was fine with Price's. You need to overpay to get the best. Do I think the Price signing was absurd as the Ohtani or Bogey signings? No, but IMO, it was an overpay.

No doubt, some of DD's guys have been a big part of the upgrades, and that should be expected as his farm guys matured. I've never short-changed DD's era or his impact on the current team. I've said, countless times, most of the farm guys he traded away did not amount to much. That does not change the fact that from the time Devers was called up in 2017, we got very little help from the farm, except for maybe Houck and 4 months of Dalbec, until Bello, Casas and Duran in 2023. Some of that is on Ben not DD, but the roster was really bad after the top 18-20 guys. I'm not saying ignore everything else to say that one area improved. I'm not trying to give Bloom all or even most of the credit. We got better in that area. It looks like we got better on the farm, despite little pitching hope. It does help, when building a team to improve in those two areas. We have a ways to go. Maybe 2 solid SP'er- maybe we need more.

This wasn't about what we ended up with. It was about identifying how many holes we had in the 40, right after 2019, and I'm not even counting Betts & Price (or ERod and Sale for 2020, only.) The roster was weak after about #18-20. Once Porcello, Betts and Price were known not to be returning, that number grew to over 20, easily. The 5 guys you mentioned were not guys we felt comfortable giving a key role in 2020. Where would they place in the rankings of the 40 man roster at the end of 2023? How about the others you did not name? All I'm saying is, we improved the bottom 20-22 from crap to mediocrity from Sept 2019 to Sept 2023. Do you disagree? The depth beyond the 40 looks better, too.

Does everyone have to agree that what many players sign for can never be an overpay?