Maxbialystock

The umps weren't why the Sox stopped scoring after the first inning, why Whitlock gave up the tying dinger in the 8th, or why Eovaldi gave up the leadoff double in the top of the 9th. The Astros won last night because they had great pitching and just enough hitting. The Sox lost because their lineup stunk after Bogey's dinger in the 1st. We already know the Sox were scoreless in the 9th inning--as they were in the 2d thru 8th innings--so I find it hard to believe that, with all their good arms used up, the Sox were going to pull this game out in extra innings.

Strangely enough, I agree with you. Baseball is nothing if not unpredictable. I used momentum to describe how I felt last night after Altuve got that dinger off Whitlock to tie the game in the 8th. Maybe the right word was foreboding, which is what I think everyone felt throughout that game when the lineup just couldn't push another run across the plate after Bogey's dinger in the 1st. But I think it's also true that Cora threw his best pitchers out there last night to get win #3: Pivetta, Taylor, Ottavino, Whitlock, and Eovaldi. If you buy the bad ump theory, you can even make the case that those five coulda/woulda/shoulda held the Astros to 2 runs in 9 innings. But I have to ask, who then pitches the 10th, 11th, 12th, etc?

It was just how I felt at the time because the Astros bullpen dominated the Sox lineup so thoroughly and because Cora had already used Pivetta, Taylor, Ottavino, and Whitlock. Eovaldi was supposed to close with a 2-1 lead. With the game tied, I just thought the Astros had the upper hand, which was exacerbated when Eovaldi threw four straight fastballs to Correa, who led off the 9th with a double off the RF wall. As I keep reminding folks, the Sox have not won a single postseason game when scoring fewer than 6 runs, and last night they scored 2.

Well, I thought at the time the momentum had already shifted to the Astros because their bullpen was so effective. Nevertheless, it was still a tie game, plus he had planned all along to use Eovaldi because last night was midway between Eovaldi's last start, last Saturday, and presumed next start, this Friday. That move, which made sense, turned sour when Eovaldi foolishly threw four straight fastballs to Correa, who led off the 9th with a double. Right guy, right inning, dumb pitching. When he mixed in breaking balls, he got two K's, but then came that single--after those presumed strikes were called balls--off a splitter a little up in the zone. You want to make this game outcome all about what you think are Cora's mistakes, but I'm certain the real problem was that the Astros bullpen dominated the Sox lineup. If the Sox ain't hitting this postseason, they ain't winning. Cora in fact used his best arms last night--Pivetta, Taylor, Ottavino, Whitlock, and Eovaldi--until the Sox were down 3-2 in the 9th.

Heck, I agree with dgalehouse too. In fact, my entire goal in this discussion was to defend Cora because I do think he made some great decisions to give the Sox a chance to win when the lineup was just moribund. When he pulled Pivetta, I had expected to leave him in, but then realized Pivetta was facing the Astros lineup for the 3d time. Plus Taylor and Ottavino did a good job in the 6th and Whitlock in the 7th. Sending him out for the 8th made complete sense to me, and expecting Eovaldi to close the game out in the 9th did too. But Whitlock gave up the dinger to Altuve and Eovaldi the double to Correa. But, most of all and completely out of Cora's control, the lineup just got shut down after the 1st inning. Credit the Astros bullpen.

Yep. Three runs might have been enough against the Yankees. But the Rays and Astros are both better hitting ball clubs and against the Sox pitching have scored 5, 6, 4, 5, 4, 5, 3, and 9 runs. And, as good as the Sox lineup has been, they were shut out once by the Rays and last night held to 2 runs.

Yep all his fault, and the fact that Eovaldi served up a double to the leadoff Astro hitter in the 9th has no bearing on the game outcome. To me throwing four straight fastballs to Correa was just plain dumb. When he and Vazquez finally wised up and started throwing other stuff, they got two K's.

For you to be right--that sending Perez out was absolutely the wrong call--I think you need to assert how someone else could have gotten that 3d out. More importantly, how the Sox were going to win a game when they were down 3-2, had not scored since the 1st inning, and have not won a postseason game while scoring less than 6 runs.

Just my opinion based on how I felt at the time. Perez had given up 0 runs in 1.2 innings of the postseason, but I had zero confidence in him, especially after the Astros lineup had tied the game off the Sox arguably best reliever Whitlock and gone ahead after scoring a run off the Sox ace. So I concluded Perez was sent out mainly to get Eovaldi out of the game so he could be ready to start Friday and maybe, though I had my doubts, to get the 3d out.

I'm more than happy to concede that. But then you need to concede that the Sox hitting died after the 1st inning. They were 0 for 9 with RISP. They failed to bring Bogey home after his one out double, ditto Arroyo after his one out triple. The Sox bullpen, meanwhile, gave up 2 runs in 4 inning--and those two runs were scored off arguably the Sox two best pitchers, Whitlock and Eovaldi.

One more time. The Sox have not won a single game in the postseason while scoring less than 6 runs. Last night that scored 2 runs in 9 innings. Last night they were 0 for 9 with RISP. Last night the Astros bullpen was excellent.

See above. The Sox have won 6 postseason games, but none when scoring less than 6 runs. True, we can't "know" for sure what would have happened in the bottom of the 9th, down 3-2, but we can make a reasonable supposition based on what we saw earlier in last night's game and earlier in this postseason. When I saw Perez go out there, I thought Cora figured the game was over and now needed to get Eovaldi off the mound and not spend any more good relievers.

The momentum was palpable last night, long before the 8th and 9th innings, because the Astros bullpen had the Sox lineup by the short hairs. They were 0 for 9 with RISP. Bogey hit a double with 1 out, and Dugo and JDM couldn't bring him home. Arroyo hit a triple with 1 out, and Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home. The Sox have won 6 postseason games so far, but not one while scoring less than 6 runs.

Ahem. The Sox scored 0 runs in the bottom of the 9th as they had in the previous 7 innings. If Perez had gotten that first batter out, the Sox would have lost 3-2.

I love Eovaldi. He has his faults, which we saw in those four straight fastballs he served up to Correa, but he is the Sox best pitcher and the right guy to pitch the 9th. Even after that double off the RF wall, Eovaldi came close to pulling off a scoreless inning. But my point is that Whitlock giving up the dinger in the 8th put the Sox in a very precarious position. As we now know, the Astros bullpen completely dominated the Sox hitting for the final 8 innings. So, when Eovaldi took the mound, it wasn't for a save but for a hold and for just one inning at that. I just did not see the Sox winning in extra innings last night because the momentum clearly belonged to the Astros bullpen and lineup.

Of course Perez wasn't the best choice to stem the tide. Far from it. His primary purpose was to get Eovaldi off the mound. Secondarily, I think Perez presence was an admission that the tide had already washed over the Sox in this game. The Astros bullpen dominated the Sox lineup, who were 0 for 9 with RISP. The game was really lost by Whitlock when he gave up that dinger to Altuve in the 8th to tie the game. And Eovaldi made it worse by throwing four straight fastballs to Correa to lead off the 9th.

FWIW, I'm delighted to see that both bellhorn and moonslav have stoutly defended Cora's moves last night, as they deserve to be. About pulling Pivetta after 5 innings. I did want him to go out for the 6th, but, when he didn't, I thought I knew why. Yes, Pivetta had been astounding holding the Astros to 1 run, but he had also been lucky. And, when he was pulled, the Astros lineup was facing him for the 3d time. Moreover, as we now know, Cora had a terrific plan for getting through the next 4 innings. Unfortunately, that depended on Whitlock, his very best reliever, throwing two shutout innings in the 7th and 8th, and Eovaldi closing in the 9th. Whitlock threw a first pitch fastball right down the middle to Altuve, then, in the 9th, Eovaldi threw four straight fastballs to lead off hitter Correa in the 9th, resulting in a double off the right field wall. To me the fault clearly lay with Whitlock and Eovaldi, not Cora. And the other great fault of course was the lineup, which scored 0 runs in 8 innings and was 0 for 9 with RISP. So why are we blaming Cora and/or the ump when we know Whitlock didn't do his job, Eovaldi didn't do his, and the lineup didn't do theirs?

Nate also gave up the leadoff double to Correa by throwing him four straight fastballs to lead off the 9th inning. That was just plain stupid and not the umpire's fault. After the double, he switched to breaking balls and got two K's before the fateful single. Once Whitlock gave up that dinger to Altuve--also on a fastball down the middle--in the 8th inning, the Sox chances of winning the game plummeted because the Astros bullpen completely dominated the Sox lineup for 8 inning and could have kept doing it. During those 8 innings Bogey doubled with one out and Dugo and JDM couldn't bring him home. Arroyo tripled with one out, and Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home. The Sox were 0 for freaking 9 with RISP last night. The Astros won last night fair and square, and the Sox hitters stunk to high heaven. Pivetta and the bullpen almost pulled off a miracle, but Whitlock--not the umpire--gave up that dinger in the 8th which sealed the Sox fate.

You and d-money are both, unsurprisingly, full of prunes. The game was basically over before Eovaldi took the mound in the 9th, and it was over because Whitlock didn't do his job when he coughed up that Altuve dinger on a fastball right down the middle to allow the Astros to tie the game. The stark reality about last night is that Houston's bullpen dominated a Sox lineup which recently beat the crap out the Rays and Astros pitching staffs. After Bogey's stunning dinger in the 1st, our big guns just rolled over and died. Bogey later hit a double with 1 out and Verdugo and JDM failed to move him. Arroyo hit a triple with 1 out, and, wait for it, Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home. Perez was not sent in to stem the tide, but to get Eovaldi off the mound after 24 pitches. The game was basically over when the Astros scored the first run, off Eovaldi, in the 9th. And I blame that run on Eovaldi and Vazquez foolishly agreeing to throw four straight fastballs to Correa leading off the 9th inning. Time and time again Eovaldi has demonstrated that his very fast fastball is in fact quite hittable when batters, especially good ones like Correa, know it's coming. Immediately after the double, Eovaldi switched to breaking stuff and got two K's before that fateful single to bring Correa home. Then came Perez and the deluge.

I pretty much agree with that, but would add I think the Astros will win today with Sale starting for the Sox.

About the ALCS. Yes, I agree with most who say last night was a huge win for the Astros because it's now 2-2 in games, the last two will be in Houston, and the Astros' bullpen dominated the Sox lineup which had scored 12, 9, and 4 runs in the previous 3 games and 6, 6, and 14 against the excellent Rays pitching staff in the final three games of the ALDS. So, yes, I also think the Astros now have the upper hand. That doesn't mean it's over even though I think the Astros have a very good chance now of returning to Houston leading 3-2 in games.

I presume the complaints about the home plate umpire concern a pitch or pitches by Eovaldi in the 9th that eventually led to the hit and run #3 for the Astros, after which Perez came in along with a basketful of hittable pitches. So I kind of understand the bitterness. However, to me the game was over when the Astros tied it in the 8th on the dinger off Whitlock because it was no longer winnable for the Sox, who had not scored since Bogey's 2 run dinger in the first inning and in fact did not score another run in the next 8 innings. This happened despite a double by Bogey with 1 out, after which Dugo and JDM failed to bring him home, and a triple by Arroyo with 1 out, after which Schwarber and Kike failed to bring him home. Pure and simple, good pitching beat good hitting. Indeed, Pivetta initially was the one with good pitching and went 5 innings while giving up just 1 run (in the 1st) and hanging onto that 2-1 lead. Old Red would like to take over the narrative and claim that Cora blew it by not sticking with whichever reliever got the most recent out, but I would argue that Cora actually made some excellent moves leading up to Whitlock, by far our best reliever all season long, to pitch the 7th and 8th and Eovaldi to close in the 9th. Whitlock, however, threw a first pitch fastball right down the pike to Altuve, who drove it out for the tying run in the 8th. Then he got 3 outs. Then, it's true, maybe Eovaldi got screwed by one or two calls in the 9th, but to me the real problem was the Astros leadoff batter, Correa, to whom Eovaldi, no doubt encouraged by Vazquez, served up four straight fastballs, the final one driven to the RF wall for an easy double. Time and time again this season and in other seasons, Eovaldi's 97mph+ fastball has been shown to be very hittable when the hitter knows one is coming. So the double by Correa was almost inevitable. Notably, immediately after the double, Eovaldi and his idiot catcher wise up, leading to a succession of breaking balls that got 2 K's before that game-winning single of a splitter a little up in the zone. By then Eovaldi had thrown 24 pitches, the game was as good as over, and it made sense to send out Perez. The griping notwithstanding, Eovaldi was still a good choice, even with a tie game rather than the planned for 2-1 lead, to pitch the 9th. He started last Saturday and will likely start this Friday, so last night's venture will not put undue stress on his arm.

So what? Against the Rays Pivetta threw 73 pitches on Thursday, Oct 7, and 67 pitches 3 days later on October 10th.

Eovaldi can't pitch until Friday, game 6, which is 3 days from today and 3 days from his start last Saturday. So, no, this was not some huge gamble.

Eovaldi was a good call because he can't start until Friday anyway. The problem was that somehow he and Vazquez agreed to throw nothing but fastballs to Correa, and Eovaldi's fastball is hittable when you know it's coming.