Maxbialystock

Kelly leaks runs like a sieve.

Nights like this, games like this make one think, along with the 1969 Mets, "you gotta believe." Crawford is throwing good stuff, which, I hasten to add Houck is also fully capable of doing, Winck seems capable of doing, and even Pivetta, on his good nights, is capable of doing. Bello used to throw good stuff, but he's always struggled with command of his pitches. Do not under-estimate our rotation. Lovely single, hard hit, by Devers to drive in our first 2 runs. Also lovely--the dinger by our 165 lb weakling batting 9th and 2d on the Sox in rbi's. I just think SPLENDIDSPLINTER brings out the best in our guys. Don't forget--in his last two outings behind the plate, Wong and the Sox pitchers gave up a total of 20 freaking runs. No wonder Casas wanted to play in Miami.

Gotta love Rafaela's range in CF and his routes, but Duran gets higher on those jumps against the wall.

6 lefty bats.

Great discussion, everyone about Baseball Digest and other sources of stats. I confess I mostly use espn's MLB section for mine. Plus for individual players I will consult baseball reference. I'm also an NCAA basketball fan and there kenpom.com has the best stats. Since this is the Sox ownership thread, a reminder--I'm inclined to defend John Henry. I have absolutely zero affection for the man, but think his stewardship has been excellent. In addition, I too am appalled at some of those large and long contracts for individual players, especially pitchers, who rarely live up to them. Consider, for example, Mookie Betts. In 6 seasons with the Sox, his accumulated WAR was 42.3 and he was paid a total of $32M. In 5 seasons with the Dodgers his accumulated WAR is 26.6, for which he has been paid $194M, including the $65M bonus and all of this year's salary.

Because Casas injury was the result of simply swinging at a pitch, I'm less sure than you he will bounce back as the Casas we saw last year and early this year. I agree he has demonstrated he can hit MLB pitching, but maybe his swing has changed or will change because of the injury.

Agree completely on Eovaldi, who was fantastic for the Sox in 2018. Thereafter, kind of up and down in terms of IP: 67 in 2019; 48 in 2020, 182 in 2021, 109 in 2022. With Texas he had 144 last year and 73 so far this year. He entered MLB in 2011 at age 21, and his lifetime ERA is 4.07. Schwarber could not have been better for the Sox in 2021, and I for one wanted him to stay, regardless of his defense. However, in 2022 the Sox still had JDM, plus their big problem was pitching, ranked 25th in MLB in ERA.

Absolutely. I've written way too much on this topic, but you have hit on the heart of the matter. The Braves saw potential in Sale, and the Sox saw an ongoing, hopeless disaster. The Sox also failed to see the real possibility that Giolito was due for TJ surgery (or the lesser version he finally went with). It is still possible that Sale's elbow/shoulder/arm will go bad before his new contract, through 2026, ends. But I don't think so because he actually works on his fitness, plus the Braves have been spacing out his starts. He has yet to start/pitch 5 days after his previous start. He gets either six or seven days rest. However, in his 15 starts this season, he has also gone over 100 pitches in 7 of them. In June, he began with an awful start, 4 innings, 8 ER's--but then had three starts in which he went 7 innings in all 3, give up 2, 2, and 1 run. Against the Yankees he went 5 innings, 1 run, 95 pitches.

I think the Sale/Giolito/Grissom deals demonstrate we still have one of dumbest FO's in MLB. The Braves FO, on the other hand, has been pretty crafty, especially about pitching, where our FO has been consummately stupid in recent years. I include DD in the stupid category because he left CB with Sale and Price who turned out both to be pricey and useless, 2019-2022. Let's not forget that Sale had the right to refuse the trade and therefore insisted that, whoever got him, had to sign him for 3 years, not just 2024. Apparently the Braves found this acceptable and the Sox thought it was so stupid--by the Braves--they agreed to pay $17M to Sale this year to seal the deal. Free at last! Free at last! These days TJ surgery is so common it's being done younger and younger. It's not a matter of whether any more, but when. In Sale's case, there were clear signs in both 2017 and 2018 that something was wrong because both seasons he turned back into a pumpkin in August-September-October. But such was his determination that the need didn't fully show itself until 2019. Last year Giolito was showing signs, late in the season, something was amiss, and the Sox ignored them. At the same time Giolito was struggling, Sale finally showed signs that he just might have a good year in 2024. TJ surgery almost always gives the pitcher new life and additional seasons. Because of the bicycle accident, last year, 2023, became Sale's first real post-Tommy John season. Also, not only does he keep himself in shape, he is probably the most professional pitcher I've seen pitch for the Sox. To me the Braves simply understood Sale better than the Sox did. Plus they may have been helped by John Henry, who quite possibly might have said, "dump him, now." At the same time the Sox did not recognize the semi-inevitability of TJ surgery for Giolito or any of the signs there was a reason why, with all those good seasons under his belt, he was now completely available. Grissom might turn out to be OK, but his good year was 2022 when his WAR was +0.9 for 41 games. Last year it was -0.7 for 23 games. This year is a dead ringer for last year: 23 games, WAR -0.6. His MLB OPS's have been .792 in 2022, .659 last year, and .367 in 2024. Meanwhile, going into this season the Sox already had Story and their top prospect, Marcelo Mayer, who is reported to be gifted defensively. Plus, as we now know, the Sox also had/have adequate guys like Hamilton, Gonzalez, Valdez, and even Rafaela to fill the two middle infield positions.

Buying is only a good idea when your CBO knows what he is doing, and ours dumped Sale while also paying $17M of his salary this year. Then he acquired Giolito for $38M for 2 years, one of which is already gone and the other is suspect.

Whoa, Nellie. Count me as one who thought last year that the old Sale was emerging and that he would be pretty decent this year. What kept him out longer than expected was that bicycle accident in ST. But the TJ surgery did in fact give Sale a new lease on life, good enough for the Braves to commit to two more years, 2025 and 2026.

He severely injured himself by simply swinging at a pitch. That's all it took. So how can he or the Sox be sure it won't happen again?

True, but this Sox front office invariably goes after the wrong bat and the wrong arm.

The problem is that by and large the Sox are horrible at trading for pitchers--some of which, I hasten to add, is because pitchers are unreliable. To me dumping Sale and going after Giolito are perfect examples of how stupid the Sox front office is. Right now the Sox are committed to paying Sale $17M and Giolito $38M--a total of $55M--for which the return will be miniscule. I hasten to add that so far the return on Story and Yoshida is about as bad. Big bucks for tiny contributions to the team on the field of play.

Sox losing record at Fenway vs winning on road probably because of lack of good righty bats. Lefty bats normally hit to the largest part of the Fenway outfield—right and center.

I gave 5 reasons for keeping Yoshida and even playing him, and one of them was that we know he was a good hitter in Japan.

He only threw 58 pitches. His last time out, he threw 91 in relief--6 innings, 2 ER.

He seems to have a mix of knuckle balls. Some of them definitely don't move much and are hit hard. Others really move and are uncatchable.

Two hard hit balls by Duran and then Hamilton--and 2 outs.

So far the knuckle baller is getting the calls--at least two balls were called strikes. Winck, on the other hand, couldn't get a strike on a ball in the strike zone.

Just might be that Devers is the man on this team. I have done more than my fair share of complaining about him, but he has the career OPS, .859, and this year's OPS which is even higher--.942. I think he passed Rafaela for the team lead in rbi last week and quite obviously is determined not to give it back. Given the last two games, that dinger was gigantic.

He doesn't want to cut it to $50M or even to $150M. I think he simply wants the money spent smarter than has been the case going back to at least 2019 when the Sox had the highest payroll in MLB and didn't make it to the postseason. Meanwhile, however--the two most recent losses notwithstanding--the Sox just might have a hedge with the way the no-name pitchers and lineup have been playing. Today they looked awful, ditto last night. But before those 2 games the Sox split 2 with Toronto, took 2/3 @ Cincy, took 3/3 @ Toronto, took 2/3 vs the Yankees, and took 2/3 vs the Phillies.

Despite today's and yesterday's horrible games, I now share your enthusiasm for making a smart trade next month. If, however, these two games are the harbinger of finishing last in the AL East, then I don't.

This is actually John Henry's 2d venture into MLB. He was also a co-owner of the Florida Marlins when DD was the GM. As for "ego and greed," I would agree that it's just about impossible for the owner of a MLB team not to have a pretty big ego. The simple act of acquiring ownership is ego-driven. To a degree, those 4 WS wins were also driven by ego. Not only John Henry's, but those of his CBO's, brain trust, managers, et al. But I'm not buying the greed argument for the simple reason that for 17 (2003-2019) of his 22 years of ownership John Henry seemed to have little hesitation in supporting large Sox payrolls. If greed were his primary motive these days, selling the Sox for billions of dollars would make the most sense because I do not think the Sox are hugely profitable.

If any of us needed an antidote to our unbridled enthusiasm for these 2024 Sox and especially for the pitching, these last 2 games have provided one. Our ace Houck got hammered today, as did the bullpen--except for this guy Smith, who shows real promise. Plus two almost obligatory errors and of course just the one lonely dinger by Duran, which only served to emphasize how really poor the Sox hitting was.