Maxbialystock

2018, when Sale's IP dropped from 214 in 2017 to 158 in 2018, was the first sign Sale had a bad elbow. 2019 simply confirmed it. 2020 was the surgery to fix it, but with a mandatory recovery period of what seems like centuries. I think the cracked rib was in 2021, and the bicycle wreck in 2022. The point is that 2023 was the first season since the surgery when the elbow was really tested. And my version of the test is that Sale did better than the Sox gave him credit for--and that the Braves saw what the Sox did not. Besides, the proof is in the pudding. Sale's pitched more innings this year, 161, than he did in 2018 (158 IP), and his ERA is 2.46. Thanks for the reminder on Casas. I was almost positive he was a goner. But I'm 84, so what do I know? My point in all this is not that I am smarter than the Sox, because that is impossible. My point is that the Braves are smarter than the Sox, and I think that's irrefutable. Do I also need to drag out Giolito, yet again? How about David Price, whom DD signed for $217M for 7 seasons ($31M/season), which turned out to be $217M for 4 seasons--and maybe just 2 good seasons?

I have an alternative theory about Sale. I believe tommy john surgery is regenerative. It doesn't just fix the elbow, it makes it stronger. Sale had the surgery done in 2020, when he was about 31. In 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023, he had a total of 31 starts and 150 IP, most of which occurred last year with 20 starts and 103 IP. So my thinking is that it was/is a mistake to think of Sale as a 35 year old pitcher who is also frail and unreliable. He just had a bad elbow, which came out of the surgery better than ever. However, his recovery and other injuries, including one on the dadgum bike, delayed his return to the mound. When he finally did for real last season, he had some ups and downs, but he finished pretty well. Plus he's Chris freaking Sale, one of the most professional pitchers I've ever seen. He has terrific command of his pitches and is completely focused when he is on the mound--and that means playing defense as well. I think the Sox, what with all the turnover in the front office (from DD to CB to Breslow), simply forgot who and what they had. Plus they assumed the 35 years applied to his arm/elbow, which it clearly does not. Also, one more time to all the Breslow apologists: the Braves, another team from the other League, for crying out loud, saw Sale's potential when the Sox didn't--on top of which the Sox gladly shelled out $17M to the Braves/Sale to "sweeten" giving away a candidate for the Cy Young this year.

Nope. Wrong again. With Sale, the Sox would obviously be in the hunt for the postseason because he's that good. Plus he would be "free" because the Sox are actually paying him right this minute to pitch for the Braves. I also disagree with Notin's assertion that it's impossible to predict or even guess at a pitcher's future health. The Braves looked at how Sale finished last season and decided he was worth a risk. The Sox were so sure Sale was DOA then even agreed to pay Sale's salary this year. Smart Braves, stupid Breslow. As for Giolito, he was clearly struggling his last few starts last season, which should have been a warning to Breslow. I read a piece recently that Sale knew in 2019 his arm/elbow weren't in good shape, which is why he didn't insist on more money when the Sox extended him. If I recall, DD was the CBO who re-signed Sale to the long contract.

Ahem. My take is that, while Breslow deserves a ton of credit for insisting on a new pitching coach and for bringing in Bailey, his offseason moves/trades/acquisitions were disastrous. Out went Sale, whose last 3 starts in 2023 were good, and in came Giolito, who has yet to pitch an inning for the Sox. So this year the Sox are spending $17M on Sale while he pitches for Atlanta, and $19M on Giolito, who does nothing. Bailey, meanwhile, inherited a bunch of relievers converted into starters: Houck, Crawford, Pivetta, Criswell, Winckowski, and Whitlock.

Thanks for starting the game thread and trying to get the Sox turned around.

The new format is a mini-IQ test. I'm not sure it's more complicated--although it does have more features--but it is a pain in the ass to navigate.

I don't agree. There are 26 players on the roster, of whom 13 are pitchers. If there is one truth about this Sox team it's that Cora has been forced to use every arm a lot because so many of them are unreliable. Did we not just watch the best (or at least the highest paid @ $16M) reliever on the team walk guys? Last night Martin, the presumptive 8th inning guy who sometimes closes, gave up 4 runs.

Completely agree the Sox are paid too much to permit themselves to collapse. I believe Devers shoulders are hurting him, but it's obvious he disdains learning the strike zone or studying opposing pitchers patterns/pitches to prepare himself. Consequently--and I said this earlier--he looks at pitching in the middle of the zone and then swings at pitches way outside the zone. He is in fact pretty good at hitting pitches outside the zone, but they are harder to hit.

Yes, but Kenley did throw 2 strikes to one better which were both called balls.

I'll tell you why he used Hill. First and foremost, Breslow is the guy who signed Hill. All Cora is doing is adding one more Sox player to the dud liberation movement. Every time that happens--a dud gets liberated via DFA or whatever--Breslow is being told loudly and clearly, "you suck at providing reliable players." Breslow is the problem, not Cora. I agree JH isn't helping either, but there are 6 MLB teams with much better won-lost records than the Sox and lower payrolls.

He's 6' and 235 lbs. He's played well--mostly--at that weight because he's just 27 (he doesn't turn 28 until after this season) after 8 freaking seasons.

Kenley was screwed on that last batter. Two straight excellent pitches called balls. I believe there is a built in advantage for hitters because they are allowed to complain a lot before anything happens to them. Pitchers must be cautious about complaining. In addition, it is much, much harder to hit corners pitching than to swing at almost any pitch inside or outside the zone.

I disagree about Yoshida, but have to admit the Sox as a team seem especially bad at pitch recognition. Devers actually seems to prefer to swing at bad pitches and stare at those down the middle.

Oh, just shut the heck up. If the Sox are unwatchable, then we beg you to please, please stop watching because you say "unwatchable" on almost every game thread. The Sox are a whole lot more watchable than you are.

Agree both were terrific, but MJ was at least as good, plus he won more NBA titles (6 total, plus he missed 1 or 2 seasons by playing baseball instead) and was a better defensive player than either. Larry or Magic. The three has changed the game, enough so that when the USA Mens team were in danger of losing to Serbia in the semi-finals, Stephen Curry put on a clinic none of Bird, Magic, or MJ was capable of. He also helped in the finals against France. I'm not that big a LeBron fan, but he too--and just short of his 40th birthday--was fantastic in the Olympics. He is a valid competitor for the GOAT label. Back to Magic. In his rookie year in the NBA with the Lakers, Kareem couldn't play in game 6 , so Magic played center and the Lakers won. Had he stayed at MSU, this would have been his junior year in college.

It sure seems as though everything is broken, but a quick peek at the Sox last 12 games--in which they are 3-9--shows the Sox have scored 2, 1, 5, 3, 6, 3, 0, 7, 1, 1, 1, and 2 runs. That's 30 runs and an average of 2.5 runs per game. So I really thing that's the biggest problem. Season to date, the Sox have scored on average 4.76 runs per game. From 4.76 to 2.5 is an awfully big dropoff. In the same 12 games, opposing teams have scored 57 runs or 4.57 runs per game. Season to date, the Sox team era is 4.15 runs per game. So, at least for those last 12 games (3 wins, 9 losses), pitching is the lesser problem. And I think within the pitching the rotation has held up better than the bullpen. The Sox still lead MLB in errors in unearned runs, but I honestly believe that 1) those 13 arms on the roster are the most important part of the defense; 2) even with the errors, the Sox hitting is far more important than the defense.

Devers first 2 pitches in the 8th were a ball right down the middle, which he stared at, followed by a pitch well below the zone, which he swung at and missed.

Missed the first 7 innings, and the 8th is a shocker. The Sox score 1 in the top without getting a hit: 2 walks, then an no-hit FC for Devers, a fly to bring home Duran, and the ever popular GIDP by Yoshida. Score now 3-2, Mets. And in strolls Martin to put the game out of reach--4 runs and 4 hits, including a dinger. 7-2, Mets.

I disagree if only because so many of them are still early enough in their careers to want/need to prove themselves. Plus I still remember Ernie Banks expression, "let's pay two." When you are playing at this level and it's for the Red Sox and the team still has a shot at the postseason, everyone wants to win games and no one wants to lose.

About all the griping on this game thread. I understand it, but prefer not to do too much of it because I feel lucky to have lived long enough to see the four WS titles and especially the 2018 season and WS title. I believe John Henry owes me nothing. This has been an especially difficult season only because the great pitching early on got my hopes up. Then, when the pitching started to fade after the ASG break, the hitting came on like gangbusters. Because of those two, I didn't worry too much about the Sox leading MLB in errors and unearned runs. Even now, despite weak fielding, weak hitting, weak bullpen, and so-so rotation, the Sox are still 2 games above .500 and 4.5 games out of games back of KC for a wild card. However, the Tigers are just 1/2 game back of the Sox and the Mariners are 1 game back.

Box Score says all 4 Mets runs are earned, so, as bad as they were, the 2 errors did not cause unearned runs even though they gave the Mets an extra out or 2. This season, as I've said too many times, the overwhelming majority of games won happened when the Sox scored 5 or more runs. The biggest problem right now is the hitting/scoring, which very recently--say, 2 weeks ago--was ranked 4th in MLB in scoring and 3d in team OPS.

Excellent summary, which is just sad.

Bello vs. Severino I'm giving the Sox the edge even though they scored just 1 run apiece yesterday and Saturday evening--largely because Bello has looked good lately and Severino is a righty. The Sox are now 4.5 games out of the wild card and it's hard to see them making that up.

Love the "Over Managing once again," which certainly dovetails nicely with the CBO, owner, and others in the Sox brain trust recently agreeing to extend Cora for 3 more years @ $7M/year. The Sox scored 1 run in this game. They have not won a game this year in which they scored just 1 run. In fact, the vast majority of wins have occurred when the Sox have scored 5 or more runs.

Fair enough.