Maxbialystock

I like Cora more than Francona, but have to admit Francona is the best manager in Sox history. The OP and others are idiots when they don't recognize that JH has been a major factor in how much talent the Sox have, and this has been especially true during most of Cora's tenure because, after DD was fired in 2019, the Sox payroll has gone steadily down. More specifically, JH has refused to pay for big contracts for starters. From 2003 through 2020--which includes all of Francona and Farrell's tenures--the Sox payroll was consistently in the top 3 in MLB. From 2021 to this year, it has gone steadily down and is now 11th. On top of that, Breslow singlehandedly tried to destroy the Sox 2024 rotation by dumping Sale and acquiring Giolito. The Sox current rotation of Houck, Crawford, Pivetta, Bello, and Criswell has a combined salary of about $10M, which is less than the closer Jansen's $16M.

An excellent, balanced post.

Pretty good laydown. I think CB was somewhat screwed from the get go because JH wasn't sure what he wanted. He had pretty much given DD carte blanche in bringing in good arms like Price, Sale, Eovaldi, Porcello, etc.--and was willing to underwrite the highest payroll in MLB, which was true in both 2018 and 2019. On the other hand, JH much earlier (2002?) hired Bill James to guide acquisitions by using sabermetrics. In the movie Moneyball, the JH actor praised Billy Beane for the very low cost per win the A's had achieved in 2002 and compared that to the Yankees much higher cost per win. However, as we now know, JH opted for keeping the Sox payroll among the top three in MLB for roughly 20 years. One thing was clear from 2020 on--no more big contracts for starters. For one thing, JH was already having to pay for Price while he was on the Dodgers staff and for Sale while he recovered from TJ surgery, then another injury and then the bicycle injury. So to me it's kind of fascinating that Breslow makes two big moves last winter with regard to starters: he dumped Sale off to the Braves while agreeing to pay $17M of his salary; and he signed Giolito @ $19M/season. So right now the Sox are shelling out $36M for two pitchers who have done absolutely nothing for the Sox. Plus Sale is now the Braves ace starter and a candidate for the Cy Young. And who exactly are the starters with Sale and Giolito unavailable? Houck, Crawford, Pivetta, and Bello--who also lead the Sox pitching staff in both IP and WAR--all courtesy of Chaim Bloom. Pitching is the Sox biggest issue. Breslow made it worse in his first year as CBO. And the rotation is right now almost a strength thanks to Chaim Bloom. FWIW, the 5th best pitching WAR on the Sox is Jansen, another CB acquisition. In Breslow's defense, he, like CB, does not have the financial support that JH gave freely to DD, Cherington, Theo Epstein, et al.

Dead on. The last thing we should want is for them to do what Fred Lynn wants them to do--quit. He calls that being "realistic." But it's really just quitting.

Dead on. The last thing we should want is for them to do what Fred Lynn wants them to do--quit. He calls that being "realistic." But it's really just quitting.

I thought this was a fantastic game even though the Sox hitting was pretty awful--0/11 with RISP. Criswell and the Sox bullpen really came through. The defense, including Devers, made some pretty good plays. Our Sox ended up losing, 2-1, in the 10th inning, in the Bronx, and against a better team (and arch-rivals). I saw no evidence that they could hear Fred Lynn whispering in their ears to quit, give up, or roll over and play dead--you know, to be "realistic."

What a crock! The Sox are by no means eliminated from the playoffs. Devers wants to play and should play as long as there is no significant risk in further injuring his shoulders. Someone else wrote that Devers does not have to be vocal to be a leader on this team. He is the highest paid player. When he plays--as opposed to staying on the bench--he sets the example, and that is good for team morale.

I hear you on "realistically." And my point remains: MLB is uniquely capable of being downright unrealistic. That's why I cited perhaps the most famous turnaround in Sox history in the 2004 ALCS. Then I cited their inexplicable collapse in September 2011, which led to Francona's contract not being renewed. And finally I cited the less dramatic 2021 postseason when the Sox made it to the ALCS. I like citing that because the 2016 and 2017 teams, both under DD, won the AL East both years and were promptly wiped out in the ALDS both years. No question getting the 3d wild card in the AL is dicey with 16 games to go and the Twins 4 games up on the Sox plus the Tigers 1 game up on the Sox and the Mariners tied with the Sox. I also concede the Sox bullpen has been scary lately and the hitting less good than a month ago. However, the rotation is looking better, and the Sox just took 2/3 from the Orioles, who are neck and neck with the Yankees and Guardians for the best W-L record in the AL. Now the Sox play 4 at Yankee Stadium. If they take 3, I think they are definitely in the hunt--unless, of course, the Twins take all 3 in Cincinnati. But then the Twins have to play 4 at Cleveland and 3 at the Fens. Do I need to remind you and others that before this season even started, Sale belonged to the Braves and Giolito, his replacement, was DOA in spring training? And, what, 8 freaking games into the season Story went on the IL. Oh, and hot bat Casas missed, what, 3 freaking months? For most of this season the Sox lineup has been primarily a bunch of no-names. Same goes for the rotation. Plus the middle infield defensive issues (and 3b). Given all that, the Sox should be at least 10 games below .500.

Realism is tricky when you're talking about baseball. Realism says no way, no how do the Sox come back from 3 down to the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS. Or that--going the other way--no way, no how do the Sox not get to the postseason in 2011 when they started September with an 83-52 record (but finished out of the postseason with a final record of 90-72). Or how about just 3 years ago when the Sox crept into the wild card game against the Yankees and Gerrit Cole--and not only won that game but the ALDS against the 100 win Rays? I do not for a moment minimize the Sox issues in the bullpen or all the competition right now--4 games behind the Twins, 1 behind Tigers, and maybe even with the Mariners--for the 3d wild card slot. On the other hand, the Sox just took 2/3 from the very good Orioles. Just ahead are the even better Yankees, so maybe the Sox will get crushed. And maybe they won't.

Go ahead and say bonehead. I've certainly earned it here and there. When you say you're a realist, I think you don't understand the true nature of MLB. Good teams can go sour for no apparent reason and so-so teams can get hot. The 2021 Sox, just 3 seasons ago, has a terrific first half, 55-36 before the ASG, and lackluster 2d half, 37-34, Then they beat the Yankees and Cole in the wild card and the 100 win Rays in the ALDS before going down to the Astros in the ALCS. The 2011 Sox, on the other hand, came into September @ 83-52 and ended up 90-72 and out of the playoffs--and the Sox fired Francona. I've already said the odds are against the Sox getting to the playoffs. The Sox are 4 games behind the Twins for the 3d slot and 1 behind the Tigers--and the Mariners are right behind or even with the Sox depending on how their game with the Padres goes. Plus the bullpen has given away games right and left, the hitting is suspect, etc.

Heckuva, heckuva win--the game and the series and against the 83-63 Orioles, The three best W-L records in the AL are the Guardians (84-62), the Yankees (83-62) and the Orioles--a very tight shot group. So the Sox are still alive for the 3d wild card despite the fact that the Twins just took their series against the lousy Angels with a 6-4 win. Next up for them are 3 vs the Reds and then 4 @ Cleveland and 3 right here in Fenway Park, where the Sox have a big edge. Oh, wait. No, you wait. If the Sox are still in it come September 20, the fans will be at the Fens and the Sox will take the series.

But not his defense. I have serious doubts about his hitting, but not his defense. I have fewer doubts about Rafaela's hitting even though he has an incredible repertoire of swings that miss and miss badly. He bats 9th in most games and has 70 rbi's, just 11 behind team leader Devers' 81. I think Rafaels is Sox best outfielder and second best SS after Story.

I think you could very well be right. The hitting has dropped off, but it's also had some good periods. Same goes for the rotation. Same even goes for the defense. But the bullpen has been weak for most of this season. So I can't resist saying this: in the offseason Breslow committed $17M for Sale to pitch for the Braves and $19M for Giolito to pitch for the Sox. Net pitching for the Sox: zero IP. So just imagine that $36M had been spent on quality relief pitchers.

Funny. Excellent.

What's this "we" stuff, paleface? You come back for one reason only--to pronounce this team as dead, deader, and deadest. Die hards actually believe something good could happen. You never do.

Ahem. Fred Lynn doesn't like anybody or anything this season. He reminds me of a scene from the Mary Tyler Moore show decades ago. They put on a play or were involved in one, and a theater critic panned it. Murray informs everyone that the critic, very much like Fred Lynn, pans everything. He then tells them that about 3 years earlier Richard Burton came to town to play Hamlet. Mary says/asks, "he didn't like Richard Burton??!!!" And Murray answers, "he didn't even like the play."

Agree completely low-scoring games put the Sox at risk because the bullpen is unreliable. But the Sox won 3-1 five days ago and 3-0 12 days ago.

Simple, basic arithmetic says you are dead wrong. This season is definitely not over. I don't disagree the odds are against the Sox, not just the gap to the 3d wild card team, but the other teams also vying for the 3d slot. Plus issues with pitching, hitting, and fielding. As for talent, I must remind you the 2019 Sox were drowning in talent, high paid talent at that: Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, JDM, Beni, JBJ, Vazquez/Leon, Moreland, Holt, Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes, Taylor, et al. They had the highest payroll in MLB and finished out of the money.

A pretty impressive list . . . . of a team that is perhaps 60-84, not 73-72 and with still a shot at a wild card slot.

I'm with you. And with Devers.

Agree on all points. Crawford in fact had a quality start. Going into this game we knew the Sox biggest weakness was/is the bullpen, so of course Bernardino gives up 2 runs in .1 (1/3 of an inning). The Sox scored 12 runs last night and 1 so far tonight.

Now a really dumb K by Duran who swung at 4 straight balls to K.

Crawford back to giving up dingers, which gets easier when you throw 91-92 mph fastballs and not much else.

Sox are only mostly dead--too soon to be checking their pockets for loose change. 18 games to go, 3 games back of the Twins and tied with Detroit and Seattle. Lately Sox hitting has been unreliable, as has the bullpen. Nevertheless, if the Twins falter, the Sox have a shot--as do Detroit and Seattle. I'd like to say righty Suarez will find all those lefty Sox bats tough, but that's not really true. Duran CF Devers 3b Abreu RF O'Neill LF Yoshida DH Wong C Casas 1B Valdez 2b Rafaela SS

Right now, Tuesday, Sep 10, the 3d wild card slot, currently held by the Twins, is a dogfight among the Twins, who have the 3d slot, and the Tigers, Sox, and Mariners. The latter 3 are all 73-70 and 3 games behind the Twins. All 4 teams have 18 games to play. The Twins are in the catbird seat, but have just lost 4 straight. Up ahead are 2 more against the Angels, 3 vs the Reds, 4 @ Cleveland, 3 @ Boston, 3 vs Miami, and 3 vs Baltimore. If the Twins finish 9-9, the Sox (or Tigers or Mariners) have to go 12-6 to tie them, so a big edge to the Twins. If the Twins go 7-11, which right now looks very possible, the Sox/Tigers/Mariners only have to go 10-8 to tie the Twins, which is doable. While I think it's possible for the Twins to be caught, I have difficulty seeing the Sox doing the catching. Bullpen is a disaster, and the hitting is inconsistent.