Maxbialystock

Story makes a difference in the field--yet again. Didn't he have 3 hits yesterday?

Terrific at bat--9 pitches--by O'Neill when he got the 2 run dinger, which was off a 98 mph fastball above the strike zone. Rodon is pitching tough. He even has a pretty good changeup. Crawford, on the other hand, is lucky to have given up just 4 runs. He stinks today.

There have exactly zero Sox managers who believed (or believes) that a strong defense is the key to winning. Bats first, gloves second, with some exceptions for SS and CF. The Sox this season have been notoriously bad against lefty starters, so of course Cora wants to optimize righty bats. Was that a 2 run dinger by a righty bat I just saw? I like Wong a lot, but I believe most think Jansen is the better defensive catcher. Thus Wong at 1b instead of Casas, a lefty bat.

All 4 Yankees runs were scored off of 3 hits--1 double and 2 dingers--and all 3 hits were off Crawford's fastball. So my question is, "why are the Sox (Jansen, Bailey, whoever) continuing to call for more fastballs from Crawford?" I hasten to add that one characteristic almost universal among Sox pitchers is that none of them has a good fastball.

Back to the game. To me Rodon's repertoire looks a ton better than Crawford's, Hence no hits in 3 innings for the Sox and 3 hits in 2 innings for the Yankees. Interestingly, the Sox have K'd only once and the Yankees 4 times. Torres homers for Yankees run #2.

Perhaps. However, I've been a Sox fan since 1949 and still believe the John Henry era is the best era in Red Sox history. I hasten to add the Cubs were nothing until they hired Theo Epstein away from the Sox. Both teams are flirting with .500 ball, but the Cubs continue to outdraw the Sox, 36,347 to 32,783. Interestingly, the Cubs payroll is 7th in MLB and the Sox payroll is 11th--$230M vs $190M.

Well said. Whitlock was a great find and terrific his first season, all of which was in relief. But he had and continues to have the repertoire of a starter, which is why he was almost certainly thrilled to be given a shot at starting. I'm no expert, but it does seem to me that good relievers only need 2 or 3 good pitchers to be effective. Starters need 3 or 4. I could swear Kenley Jansen sometimes seem to get by with one freaking pitch, but is pretty good at hitting corners. When Kimbrel and Barnes were at their best, they both had good fastballs, over 95 mph, and terrific curve balls. Koji Uehara had the slowest fast ball in the known universe. I doubt that it ever went more than 90 mph, and was normally around 88. But it was nevertheless a good fit with his superb splitter and masterful control.

What failure? The attendance this year is the same as last year and the year before and better than 2021, the year after the 2020 covid season. As long as Sox fans continue to come to the park in semi-droves (almost 33K/game) and pay top dollar to watch .500 baseball, that's what they will get. Boston is reputed to be one of the great educational cities in America, but it has spawned one of the dumbest fan bases around. I say again, the 2012 Sox absolutely stunk and the Sox fans came to games in freaking droves--37,383 per game. Six years later, 2018, the Sox had the best team in their entire freaking history, and the attendance was down to 35,747 per game. I hasten to add that, while I will agree Fenway park is very photogenic on TV, it is also one of the crappiest ballparks in MLB with way too many seats with terrible sight lines.

"Ownership" is John Henry, who only happens to be the most successful owner in MLB since 2002 and the best Sox owner ever. As I've said before, he did not arrive as a neophyte because he had previously owned the Miami Marlins and before that a minor league team. He bought the Sox for around $660M, and they are now worth $4.5B or $5B. I think John Henry is hard to pin down. In the movie Moneyball, which is based on the story of the Oakland A's great season in 2002 and their GM/CBO Billy Beane, who used something like sabermetrics to create that winning ball club, In the movie Billy Beane flies to Boston to see John Henry at the end of the 2002 season and is told he is the best GM/CBO in MLB and is offered a contract commensurate with that--which he turns down because he doesn't want to move away from California. John Henry also tells Billy he has hired Bill James, author of Sabermetrics. However, John Henry did not go the Billy Beane/Sabermetrics route with the Sox. Nosiree. He bankrolled the Sox at a competitive level for close to 20 freaking seasons, which allowed them to end the 86 year drought in 2004 and to win three more World Series, more than any other franchise over the same period. For comparison, the Yankees with their 27 WS titles, have won just 1 in the JH era. That sort of reached a peak with the amazing 2018 season when the Sox won 108 regular season games and then beat the Yankees, 3 games to 1, in the ALDS, the Astros 4 games to 1 in the ALCS, and the Dodgers 4 games to 1 in the WS. The Sox had the highest payrolls in MLB in both 2018 and 2019, but in 2019 they didn't even qualify for the postseason. So DD got fired because--I believe--by the end of the season he needed a lot more money, over and above the highest payroll in MLB, to compete with the Dodgers, a far wealthier team, to keep Mookie Betts, and also to replace Chris Sale and David Price while still fulfilling their pricey, long-term contracts. There was, in fact, no limit to the amount of money DD was going to need to keep the Sox competitive. Thus Chaim Bloom, who came from a franchise, the Rays, who had in fact mastered the fine art of producing competitive teams cheaply. Their payrolls were consistently among the bottom 5 in MLB, and, just as consistently, they competed well in the ferocious AL East. They played in the WS and lost in 2008, their first winning season. Since then, they've made it to the postseason 8 times, including 2021 when they won 100 regular season games and lost--wait for it!!--to Boston, who had won 92 games, with CB as the Sox CBO. The problem for/with Chaim Bloom is that the Rays needed decades to build their system of low payroll but competitive MLB teams. Besides, the Sox and John Henry don't need to go lowball on salaries because the Sox still draw, this year, 32,783 attendance per game despite a .500 won-loss record. The Rays draw half as many. Relatedly, a telling stat. The 2024 Sox are still drawing 32,783 in what is their 3d straight season of probably not making the postseason. That attendance is ranked 11th in MLB. In 2018 when DD and john Henry and Alex Cora built and managed the best Red Sox team ever--which also had the highest payroll in MLB--their average attendance was 35,747, ranked 9th in MLB. Does anyone on talksox care to guess what the Sox attendance was in 2012 when the Sox finished dead last in the AL East with a dipstick (who replaced Francona) as manager? How does 37,567 sound? Does anyone on talksox doubt for a moment JH is unaware of the Sox attendance?

The game threads are a lot shorter, which may not be a bad thing. I resent those "outside" opinions, which is probably a good thing. If moonslav and bellhorn04 give you a thumbs up, you can take that to the bank.

The only sensible remark on this thread. I'm pretty sure I castigated CB as often as anyone, but I think the article is right to defend him. To me this season has turned out way better than it should have, mostly because of Chaim Bloom and despite the idiocies of Craig Breslow, whose two big offseason moves were to dump Chris Sale and pay $17M of his salary so he could be a Cy Young candidate for the Braves and to sign Giolito for $19M/season so he could do absolutely nothing for the Sox this season. Remember the conversation between John Henry and Billy Beane near the end of Moneyball? JH cites how much the A's paid per win in 2002 vs how much the Yankees paid. Huge difference. Right now the Yankees have 86 wins, for which they paid $309M--or $3.7M/win. The Sox have 75 wins which cost $190M, or $2.5M per win. And don't forget that $190M includes the aforementioned $17M for Sale to compete for the Cy Young as a Braves pitcher abd the $19M for Giolito. Plus $22.5M for Story to play maybe 30 games, $7.5M for Chris Martin to earn a WAR (to date) of +0.2, $6.7M for Justin Turner to play elsewhere; $2M for Joely Rodriguez to drag the Sox down with his -0.5 WAR, etc The best thing DD did for the Sox was to fire Farrell and hire Cora. Then CB rehired Cora after he was suspended for the 2020 season. And, lo and behold, the 2021 Sox turned out to be way better than the 2016 and 2017 Sox (about whom ignorant Talksoxers rhapsodize).

Good points. However,-- 1. The 2021 Sox won 92 games in the regular season and beat the Yankees and Rays (100 wins) to get to the ALCS, so of course they were better than this year's version. In fact, it pisses me off that almost everyone on talksox forgets how successful the 2021 Sox were. In my opinion, they were way better than the 2016 and 2017 Sox, both of whom got their clocks cleaned in the ALDS. You guys keep screaming, "they won the AL East! They won the AL East!" But you forget that both years they only won 93 games in the regular season. The 2021 Sox won just 1 fewer games, 92, and then they blew away the Yankees in the wild card and the Rays in the ALDS. 2. Despite the Rays and Jays, the AL East still has the best won-lost record in MLB. 3. The Sox should be worse than the last two years because the payroll is smaller and because they have a complete idiot of a CBO who dumped Sale, currently competing for the NL Cy Young for the Braves while being paid $17M by the Sox, and picked up Giolito, who's getting paid $19M to do nothing. Plus Story missed 5 months thanks to the injury in April. Plus Casas missed about 100 games because he recklessly swung a bat a pitch. How dumb can you be? As a result, as I keep reminding everyone, the Sox have had pretty much a no-name roster--with Devers and Jansen being the exceptions. 4. However, the no-names have done better than expected. Duran was a freaking All-Star and his WAR is 8.7. Despite shoulder issues, Devers WAR is 3.9 and was higher, Abreu's WAR is 3.0, Rafaela's 2.7, Hamilton's 2.7, Wong's 1.6, Gonzalez 1.6, O'Neill 2.9, etc. Plus the rotation, despite the Gioliito for Sale fiasco, is almost decent with Houck (WAR 3.2), Crawford 2.4, Bello 1.2, and Pivetta (1.6). The bullpen stinks, of course--mostly because Breslow did almost nothing last winter or in July--and the infield defense has been lousy (Sox lead MLB in errors and unearned runs). Nevertheless, the Sox rankings in team ERA and runs scored are both higher than both the 2023 and 2024 Sox. 5. Plus today is September freaking 14th, and the Sox just took 2/3 from the Orioles, lost two very close (and winnable) games in Yankee Stadium, and today took the 3d, 7-1. Half the talksox board or more wanted Yoshida DFA'd, Devers put on the IL, Story not brought back in September, etc. But all three are making a difference despite their imperfections--and you better believe the rest of the lineup and the rotation are also making a difference. Even the low-down, no-good, rotten, stinking bullpen has had it's moments--like, for example, today and in game 1 Thursday. Plus games 1 and 3 vs the Orioles. 6. This season ain't over no matter how many times Fred Lynn says it is. These no-names (I should have included Story and Yoshida as non-no-names) are not quitters, nor are the non-no-names (Jansen, Devers, Story, Yoshida, and maybe O'Neill--and, OK, Duran too). Tomorrow it's lefty Rodon vs toughie Crawford, and I freaking can't wait.

Whattalotta from the OP. Right now, with Story back and playing well at SS, Rafaela is still the best outfielder on the team and the 2d best SS. While I could not agree more with his indiscipline at the plate, Rafaela also has the 4th most total bases on the team, 3d most rbi's, tied for 4th most dingers, 4th most runs scored, 3d most SB's, and tied for 2d most triples. Last season he played in just 28 games, and this season he's played the 2d most games on the Sox, 142. I therefore do not agree that the Sox "went wrong" on Rafaela. Yes, the indiscipline is a problem, but it's countered by all the other pluses as well as the real possibility he can fix his "swing at everything." Did I forget to mention Rafaela's WAR is +2.7? The Yankees paid Jacoby Ellsbury I think around $150M for 7 seasons. He played four and in those four his WAR's were 3.3, 1.9, 2.8, and 1.7. That's a total of 8.7 which, if divided by 7 seasons, averages out to WAR +1.2.

Nicely said.

I see it differently, I think the Sox overall played great in all 3 games, losing 2-1 in 10 innings in game 1, 5-4 in 9 innings in game 2--in which they had a 4-0 lead before the bullpen collapsed--and won decisively today. They are still not eliminated from postseason, but are now unlikely to make it. Nevertheless, I liked what I saw in all 3 games at Yankee Stadium. They are 4 behind the Twins for the 3d wild card, and also 1.5 behind the Mariners and .5 behind the Tigers, pending their (all 3 teams) game results today.

JBJ took over in CF in 2014, the year Ellsbury went to the Yankees. He couldn't hit--his OPS was .531-- but he sure could field and throw--and consequently went back and forth between Boston and Pawtucket that season. But in 2015 and 2016 his OPS's were over .800 and in 2017 and 2018 were acceptable at .726 and .717 because he was so valuable in the outfield. To me Rafaela is a different kettle of fish. For one thing, he's pretty darn good SS as well as centerfielder. On this Sox team he has the best among the outfielders. Unlike JBJ, he's also fast afoot, especially on the basepaths. Plus, despite the OPS of .675, he is 3d on the Sox in rbi's with 70 (11 more than O'Neill and his 30 dingers), 4th in doubles, 4th in runs scored, and tied for 4th in dingers with 15. Oh, and he is 2d on the Sox in games played. Not too shabby for his first real season (last year he played in just 28 games) in MLB. I do not disagree he has a terrible grasp of the strike zone, but I do not think it's unthinkable he will improve in that.

7 freaking innings????!!!!! Nobody currently meets that standard. In fact, the MLB trend seems to be go to the bullpen for the final 3 or 4 innings because statisticians insist the 3d time through a batting order is hazardous and the 4th time even more so. Half of every MLB roster are pitchers, 13, and of those at least 8 are relievers. The simple fact is that Breslow, despite his impressive degree from Yale and 12 years as a MLB pitcher, seems to have ignored the importance of the Sox bullpen. His big offseason moves, we now know, were to destroy the rotation by dumping Sale and signing Giolito. Nevertheless, the Sox rotation is viable right now largely because of Chaim Bloom. And the bullpen stinks because of Breslow--and certainly not because the Sox starters don't routinely go 7 freaking innings.

I can't resist asking this question. Bello is 25 and earns maybe $1M, which is actually pretty good. He's going up against Cole, who has a lot more experience and makes $36M/year. We are in the 5th inning, and the Sox, whose hitting recently has been suspect, are leading 7-1, and Cole has just been pulled from the game with 1 out. Don't you think your standard for Bello is just a tiny bit high?

Agree. I think Bello has a pretty good array of pitches and maybe the best changeup on the team. Plus he can throw hard when he needs to. His weakness is control/command, but I think that's actually a basic requirement for Sox pitchers. Once they are found out--discovered they can actually work the edges of the strike zone--they are dumped. Latest example is of course Chris Sale.

Actually, that's pretty mainstream. The US Armed Services have long tolerated moustaches but not beards--I'd say for at least a century. They do make exceptions, but not many. Rare is the flag officer who even has a moustache.

To all those who have opined Devers should sit out the rest of the season because he can't hit or do anything else that's useful-- The Yankees just walked him intentionally with no one on base, after which he stole 2d base and then scored. Now the Sox are up 3-1 on a rally that began with that intentional pass and SB. In no way do I mean to suggest those hits by Abreu and Yoshida weren't fantastic because they were. Nevertheless, it would appear Alex Cora knows just a tiny bit more about who to play and when than all those nattering nabobs of negativism on talksox.

I don't see musical chairs at all. I see lots of potential infielders, including middle infielders, with Grissom being maybe 5th in line. Story, Rafaela, Mayer, and Hamilton are all probably ahead of Grissom. This obsession with the middle infield makes no sense when the bullpen is as bad as it is. The 2018 Sox, the best Sox team ever had Nunez and 2b, and he couldn't catch popups that he had to go back for. In fact, the 2018 Sox SS, Bogaerts, had a DWAR of -1.0, Nunez's was -1.5, Beni's (in LF) was -0.6, Devers' was -0.9, etc. JDM's was -1.4.

Maybe because he's better than the alternatives. Maybe because he's the highest paid player on the team and feels a responsibility to do more than sit in the dugout.

A quiet shout-out to moonslav who has insisted all season long that defense makes a difference. Right now Story can't hit spit, but his defense is making a difference. My guess is that Rafaela has more range, but Story is just so freaking consistent. Maybe it's contagious because Devers looked sharp last night. You know, Devers, the guy who should have stopped playing back in May--or was it April?--when Fred Lynn first declared the Sox had no chance this season.